Motor load on GFCI breaker
- Thread starter jmmyers
- Start date
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ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
I wouldn't agree. GFCI recepts and breakers can be used on motor loads. For example commercial kitchens. I also use them for water coolers and several other items.
I wouldn't agree. GFCI recepts and breakers can be used on motor loads. For example commercial kitchens. I also use them for water coolers and several other items.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
I agree with ron. Yes you could use a GFCI breaker, but why? The laundry circut is not required to be GFCI protected.
I know of hundreds of above ground pool motors that are fed off of GFCI receptacles.
I agree with ron. Yes you could use a GFCI breaker, but why? The laundry circut is not required to be GFCI protected.
I know of hundreds of above ground pool motors that are fed off of GFCI receptacles.
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
Sorry fellows I should have elaborated on this a little better.
The AHJ here interprets the washer hookup as a water source, hence requiring GFCI protection (via GFCI receptacles) at the laundry circuits. Ok, I can buy that it is a valid point after all a water source is a water source. I can certainly even understand that perspective a little better knowing that those rubber laundry hoses are prone to bursting with age. In addition to that most have a laundry tub next to them which is indeed a water source.
This is what really rocks my boat about the situation. Right in the directions to the GFCI receptacle it states they are not intended to be used on motor loads (washer and dryer). In addition to that the circuit itself is still live even if the receptacle trips. In the case of the broken washer hose it still does stand a chance of saturating the live circuit given the receptacle trips. I believe it would be much safer to run those circuits on a GFCI breaker since it would therefore cut off the electricity to the entire circuit.
Unfortunately for me I have never had a GFCI breaker and I don't know if they can be used on motor load circuits. Are they limited to non motor load circuits like the receptacles?
Please keep in mind that I do not question his intentions. The codes are the minimum and he is just adding more safety to those standards. I question requiring a device that specifically states it is not intended for use on motor loads.
Thanks for your insight. Hopefully you will share some more with me so I can find a fresh perspective on this.
Joe Myers
Sorry fellows I should have elaborated on this a little better.
The AHJ here interprets the washer hookup as a water source, hence requiring GFCI protection (via GFCI receptacles) at the laundry circuits. Ok, I can buy that it is a valid point after all a water source is a water source. I can certainly even understand that perspective a little better knowing that those rubber laundry hoses are prone to bursting with age. In addition to that most have a laundry tub next to them which is indeed a water source.
This is what really rocks my boat about the situation. Right in the directions to the GFCI receptacle it states they are not intended to be used on motor loads (washer and dryer). In addition to that the circuit itself is still live even if the receptacle trips. In the case of the broken washer hose it still does stand a chance of saturating the live circuit given the receptacle trips. I believe it would be much safer to run those circuits on a GFCI breaker since it would therefore cut off the electricity to the entire circuit.
Unfortunately for me I have never had a GFCI breaker and I don't know if they can be used on motor load circuits. Are they limited to non motor load circuits like the receptacles?
Please keep in mind that I do not question his intentions. The codes are the minimum and he is just adding more safety to those standards. I question requiring a device that specifically states it is not intended for use on motor loads.
Thanks for your insight. Hopefully you will share some more with me so I can find a fresh perspective on this.
Joe Myers
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
As they are required in Kitchens and Bathrooms motor loads are common, mixers, hairdryers etc.
And going to the code Article for pools
2002 NEC
If your GFCI directions say not for motor loads bring it back and get another brand.
I have never heard of such a restriction for any GFCI device.
As they are required in Kitchens and Bathrooms motor loads are common, mixers, hairdryers etc.
And going to the code Article for pools
2002 NEC
As you can see 680.22 requires GFCIs for pump motors, and most pool pumps are higher HP than a washer or dryer.
If your GFCI directions say not for motor loads bring it back and get another brand.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
I still don't get it either.
Where in the Code does it say 'water source' must have GFCI protection? Where in 210.8 does it require the laundry circut to have GFCI protection?
Your AHJ is not interpreting the Code, he is making up his own Code which is where the problem is. Unless there is a written legal addendum, the GFCI is Not required.
Where in PA is this and which Inspection agency? Or is this a 'one man show' inspector for a small town? Or better yet, is this a town inspector inspecting electrical work?
I still don't get it either.
Where in the Code does it say 'water source' must have GFCI protection? Where in 210.8 does it require the laundry circut to have GFCI protection?
Your AHJ is not interpreting the Code, he is making up his own Code which is where the problem is. Unless there is a written legal addendum, the GFCI is Not required.
Where in PA is this and which Inspection agency? Or is this a 'one man show' inspector for a small town? Or better yet, is this a town inspector inspecting electrical work?
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
Joe
What brand and model # is your GFCI receptacle? The instructions might say that it is not switch rated for motor loads but this does not mean you can't use it to supply motor loads. It only means you can't use it as an on/off switch to control the motor loads. The blank face style of GFCI's are switch rated and can be used to control the load.
Just because the inspector feels laundry equipment should be GFCI protected in not acceptable. If he can't back up his requirement with the NEC or local amendments install a standard receptacle.
Joe
What brand and model # is your GFCI receptacle? The instructions might say that it is not switch rated for motor loads but this does not mean you can't use it to supply motor loads. It only means you can't use it as an on/off switch to control the motor loads. The blank face style of GFCI's are switch rated and can be used to control the load.
Just because the inspector feels laundry equipment should be GFCI protected in not acceptable. If he can't back up his requirement with the NEC or local amendments install a standard receptacle.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
Curt i agree with you completley we have about 1,100 t poles out there thats how many skill saws,sawzalls chipping hammers on gfci circuits ??
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
I'm sorry if I offend anybody, but I am completely tired of inspectors that make up the rules as they go. As an inspector myself, I don't call a violation if there is not one. If your inspector feels that strongly about this, he needs to submit a code change. In the meantime, maybe you could try talking with him/her about an alternitive, such as the exception for a singular receptacle dedicated for an appliance. If your inspector continues to call non-violations, ask him about his board of appeals. . . you have the right to due process.
I'm sorry if I offend anybody, but I am completely tired of inspectors that make up the rules as they go. As an inspector myself, I don't call a violation if there is not one. If your inspector feels that strongly about this, he needs to submit a code change. In the meantime, maybe you could try talking with him/her about an alternitive, such as the exception for a singular receptacle dedicated for an appliance. If your inspector continues to call non-violations, ask him about his board of appeals. . . you have the right to due process.
chris white
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
Joe Myers, are you in S. Whitehall by any chance?
Instead of a GFCI for the washer, you should have a single receptacle device, that way you won't plug anything else in on your washer circuit (and next to your laundry sink, or in your unfinished basement). That should satisfy your inspector.
I've never understood that GFCI/motor issue. Like everyone said, we use them to protect construction receptacles, swimming pool pumps, spas, whirlpool tubs, kitchen appliances, etc.
Joe Myers, are you in S. Whitehall by any chance?
Instead of a GFCI for the washer, you should have a single receptacle device, that way you won't plug anything else in on your washer circuit (and next to your laundry sink, or in your unfinished basement). That should satisfy your inspector.
I've never understood that GFCI/motor issue. Like everyone said, we use them to protect construction receptacles, swimming pool pumps, spas, whirlpool tubs, kitchen appliances, etc.
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: Motor load on GFCI breaker
i have never have any probems with gfci with electric motors i use it for pretty long time and it is very common for both usa and france to use it ( it did say it in french codes also !!)and i will support iwire satements (bob) and i use both reguar gfci repectales and faceless and breakers and in fact it did save my life few time once with a brand new motor gone bad and gfci did kick out so volently and i learn that the motor was bad grouning on starting capatior even thru i did test it and then retest it again with dvm to make sure and it was nuteral and grounding was bad connetion at motor so it really help me alot and btw the codes are really enforcing with gfci's it will show up almost everywhere now nowdays.. but few places i can make a expect for specal cause per nec codes
merci marc
i have never have any probems with gfci with electric motors i use it for pretty long time and it is very common for both usa and france to use it ( it did say it in french codes also !!)and i will support iwire satements (bob) and i use both reguar gfci repectales and faceless and breakers and in fact it did save my life few time once with a brand new motor gone bad and gfci did kick out so volently and i learn that the motor was bad grouning on starting capatior even thru i did test it and then retest it again with dvm to make sure and it was nuteral and grounding was bad connetion at motor so it really help me alot and btw the codes are really enforcing with gfci's it will show up almost everywhere now nowdays.. but few places i can make a expect for specal cause per nec codes
merci marc
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