Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Status
Not open for further replies.

tariqalauddin

New member
Can any one clarify if Internal combustion engines (petrol or diesel) are allowed in Electrically Classified Areas (Hazardous areas).

We are a chemical plant utilizing natural gas to manufacture methanol. Due to some recent changes, one of the plant roads has become part of a Class I div II area. Some of our engineers claim that the hazardous area classification as per NEC relates to only electrical equipment and not to other equipment which can produce spark.

I as a safety specialist, am of the opinion that all "ignition sources" need to be kept away from hazardous areas. These include, motor vehicles.

Comments and reference to any codes or practices shall be appreciated
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

This answer will not help but may give you some helpful information. I do not know the answer to your question.

When I was in the USAF, some of our vehicles has spark arresters on the exhaust systems where these vehicles were around explosives. This probably doesn't apply.

The area around gasoline pumps is a Class I, Division 2 area and we do not keep vehicles out of that area. Additionally, the floor in commercial garages is also a Class I, Division 2 area and we do not keep vehicles out of that area. Both of these areas are from the floor to 18 in. :D
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

I recall being in a refinery where they used gasoline powered vehicles in division 2 areas, BUT I seem recall they had removed the catalytic convertor and made some other modifications to them. Don't recall what else had been done.

[ April 06, 2005, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Automobiles drive through Division 2 locations literally millions of times a day. (Even with catalytic converters) See Art 514 and especially Diagram 514.3.

More to the point, electrical area classification is for selecting equipment covered by the NEC. It has no other defined purpose. See Sections 500.1 and 90.2(B)(1).

You may wish to consult with your insurance underwriter. Personally I wouldn't worry about it - they probably wouldn't either.
 

sirdle

Member
Location
California
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

tariqalauddin,

The real questions here, are: Is it dangerous to drive a car through a Class 1, Div II area? and should you, as a safety professional, be concerned?

The answer to both of these questions is YES!

While the NEC does not directly address the question of automobiles in classified areas, it does provide basic information which can be used to understand the nature of this danger.

A Class 1, Div II area is one in which combustible gasses MAY exist in sufficient concentrations such that a source of ignition could cause the gas ignite. BUT, it is understood that this is not a normal process condition... an abnormal condition or an accident would be required for this gas to be released.

Consider the following scenario: a vessel ruptures, LEL alarms go off all over the plant, contract workers (who may not have been trained properly in plant safety) panic, jump into their trucks and race through the vapor cloud in an attempt to evacuate the plant... Couldn't happen? I think it could.

In the NFPA book, "Electrical Installations in Hazardous Location," the authors site as possible ignition sources: power arcs from electrical equipment, static electricity, mechanical sparks, open flames, hot surfaces, and "other sources." They give many examples of each of these. ALL of these sources must be controlled in a hazardous environment.

For legislative guidance in enforcing worker safety measures, look to your OSHA regulations. Also, if your plant handles sufficient quantities of hazardous chemicals they may be required to address these dangers through OSHA's Process Safety Management program.

The proper way to address this issue is through: (1) Engineering controls,(2) Administrative controls, and (3) Personal Protective Equipment.

Engineering controls should always be tried first.

Do you have new area classification drawings? Sometimes, when engineers do not have the time or the budget to completely analyze a change in the process, they will error on the side of safety by creating blanket classifications which may not be necessary. Contacting a good engineering firm that has ample experience in your industry would be a good first step in reviewing your area classification drawings to see if they can be reasonably modified. (Note: area classification drawings specify the height as well as the breadth of the area covered. In many cases, the classified area reaches only 18" above grade. This places the ignition-capable components of the car outside the classified area.)

Engineering solutions may also include: elevating the road to get it out of the area; re-routing the road around the plant, installing block walls on either side of the road to isolate it; or moving pumps, valves, or process piping further away from the road.

Administrative controls should be tried next.

In all the refineries, gas plants, and offshore oil platforms where I have worked, ignition sources are allowed as long as a the proper procedures are followed. These usually include: Job Safety Plans, Safe Work Permits, and Hot Work Permits. The goal is to make sure everyone understands what the dangers are and what is to be done in an emergency. Usually one person constantly monitors the air for combustible gas and shuts down all work if any gas is detected.

Personal Protective Equipment should be tried last. I can't think of any PPE that could be used to make this safe.

Finally, please note the following:

Article 514 deals with Gasoline Stations. The classified area where cars are permitted extends only 18" above grade. Even though the vehicle electrical system is in an unclassified area there are signs on the pumps (at least in California there are) which warn you to turn off your engine, not to smoke, turn off all electronic equipment (like radios, cell phones, and pagers), not to re-enter your vehicle while fueling (because of static electricity) and to place plastic fuel containers on the ground when re-fueling them (don't leave them in the truck bed --- static electricity again).

Most refineries prohibit the use of cell phones and they require pagers to be listed and labeled as non-incendive devices.

Most off-shore platforms prohibit anyone from bringing cigarette lighters on board.

I read a safety incident report once of a person who had been carrying a 9-volt battery in his pocket with some loose change. The battery shorted out across a penny and ignited some pocket fluff, which, though startling, was easily extinguished.

[ April 20, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: sirdle ]
 

coulter

Senior Member
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Originally posted by sirdle:
... Is it dangerous to drive a car through a Class I, Div II area? and should you, as a safety professional, be concerned?

The answer to both of these questions is YES!
I would have an easier time agreeing if you also advocated the same rules for refueling civilian autos. So how come this is only dangerous in an industrial facility?

A couple of comments:

If the signs you mentioned that are posted at auto gas stations make civilian auto refueling safe, why wouldn't the same signs at the industrial facility be suffcient? Suspposing a civilian drives off with the nozzle still in the tank, tears the nozzle off and the hose is squirting gas everywhere. And the rest of the customers jump in their vehicles, startup and drive off. We don't seem worry about that.

Most of the facilities I work at have equipment and tanks that are subject to regular, unplanned events that discharge a hydrocarbon vapor cloud in the tank yard. Driving trucks into the tank yard is part of daily activities. We control with training and administrative controls. Personnel entering the tank yard contact the control room, radio is mandatory. If a relief event happens, the workers are notified by radio, they leave the truck where it is, and get out of the tank yard on foot. This has worked pretty well for 25 years.

You might say, that is dangerous - don't do it. And I would say, That's easy to say if you live in LA, I bet you don't work where -40F with 40 knots wind is a common occurrence. The workers might think that not using a truck is more risk than using a truck.

I think (not verified) the OSHA requirements you cited also required safety training even for contractors. For example everyone entering our facilities either have the minimum safety training or are escorted - no exceptions.

Probably lots of companies don't do that. Their bad, but I don't see where adding another layer of law or regulation is going to fix that.

For some of us, driving through CI, DII areas is considered a normal practice, requiring some minimal controls. And driving through a C1, D1 area (oh the horror of it :eek: )is also a normal practice, but does require additional controls. None is considered unsafe if the proper procedures are followed.

No question, as in all things, if one does not know what one is doing, the activity is likely unsafe.

carl
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Wow. I don?t know here to start.


Originally posted by sirdle:
tariqalauddin,

The real questions here, are: Is it dangerous to drive a car through a Class 1, Div II area? and should you, as a safety professional, be concerned?

?Class? is designated by Roman numerals (I, II, III) and Division by Arabic (1, 2)

The answer to both of these questions is YES!

I stand by my previous reply. If you?re worried, consult with your insurer ? they probably won?t be concerned.

While the NEC does not directly address the question of automobiles in classified areas, it does provide basic information which can be used to understand the nature of this danger.

The NEC is an equipment installation standard and the ?basic information? supplied is insufficient to determine the dangers. One must refer to another document such as NFPA 497 or API RP 500

A Class 1, Div II area is one in which combustible gasses MAY exist in sufficient concentrations such that a source of ignition could cause the gas ignite. BUT, it is understood that this is not a normal process condition... an abnormal condition or an accident would be required for this gas to be released.

This part is not accurate. Both NFPA 497 and API RP 500 recognize accidents are not a basis for electrical area classification.

Consider the following scenario: a vessel ruptures, LEL alarms go off all over the plant, contract workers (who may not have been trained properly in plant safety) panic, jump into their trucks and race through the vapor cloud in an attempt to evacuate the plant... Couldn't happen? I think it could.

So? In that case the ?hazardous location? will probably extend well beyond those shown on electrical area classification documents. API RP 500 states in section 1.2.1 (Scope)

The following items are beyond the scope of this document:
?
b. catastrophes such as well blowouts or process vessel ruptures. Such extreme conditions require emergency measures at the time of occurrence;
c. the suitability of locations for the placement of non-electrical equipment;
There is similar text in NFPA 497


In the NFPA book, "Electrical Installations in Hazardous Location," the authors site as possible ignition sources: power arcs from electrical equipment, static electricity, mechanical sparks, open flames, hot surfaces, and "other sources." They give many examples of each of these. ALL of these sources must be controlled in a hazardous environment.

The API Subcommittee on Electrical Equipment, hasn?t considered "Electrical Installations in Hazardous Location," authoritative for years; primarily because it tries to apply electrical area classification to ?ALL of these sources [that]must be controlled in a hazardous environment.? This does not mean they are to be ignored, rather electrical area classification is not to be the basis for determining ?ALL of these sources?? The SOEE does consider NFPA 497 authoritative. ?

For legislative guidance in enforcing worker safety measures, look to your OSHA regulations. Also, if your plant handles sufficient quantities of hazardous chemicals they may be required to address these dangers through OSHA's Process Safety Management program.

We finally agree on something.

The proper way to address this issue is through: (1) Engineering controls,(2) Administrative controls, and (3) Personal Protective Equipment.

Engineering controls should always be tried first.

Do you have new area classification drawings? Sometimes, when engineers do not have the time or the budget to completely analyze a change in the process, they will error on the side of safety by creating blanket classifications which may not be necessary. Contacting a good engineering firm that has ample experience in your industry would be a good first step in reviewing your area classification drawings to see if they can be reasonably modified. (Note: area classification drawings specify the height as well as the breadth of the area covered. In many cases, the classified area reaches only 18" above grade. This places the ignition-capable components of the car outside the classified area.)

Proper documentation is a requirement of both OSHA PSM and NEC Section 500.3(B). There are no exceptions.

Engineering solutions may also include: elevating the road to get it out of the area; re-routing the road around the plant, installing block walls on either side of the road to isolate it; or moving pumps, valves, or process piping further away from the road.


Administrative controls should be tried next.

In all the refineries, gas plants, and offshore oil platforms where I have worked, ignition sources are allowed as long as a the proper procedures are followed. These usually include: Job Safety Plans, Safe Work Permits, and Hot Work Permits. The goal is to make sure everyone understands what the dangers are and what is to be done in an emergency. Usually one person constantly monitors the air for combustible gas and shuts down all work if any gas is detected.

Personal Protective Equipment should be tried last. I can't think of any PPE that could be used to make this safe.

Many refining facilities require NOMEX as a general plant practice although it is not legislated requirement.

Finally, please note the following:

Article 514 deals with Gasoline Stations. The classified area where cars are permitted extends only 18" above grade. Even though the vehicle electrical system is in an unclassified area there are signs on the pumps (at least in California there are) which warn you to turn off your engine, not to smoke, turn off all electronic equipment (like radios, cell phones, and pagers), not to re-enter your vehicle while fueling (because of static electricity) and to place plastic fuel containers on the ground when re-fueling them (don't leave them in the truck bed --- static electricity again).

Again, so? These are a separate set of safety practices set by NFPA 30A or API recommendations; i.e., the area classification requirement is establishes as ?extracted? text from NFPA 30A. No smoking, turning off engines and placing fuel containers on the ground are too. The other ?requirements? are actually only recommendations from API. unless they are legislated locally. None of them have anything to do with the electrical area classification since most of the activities, except filling containers, is outside the classified location

Most refineries prohibit the use of cell phones and they require pagers to be listed and labeled as non-incendive devices.

Again these are plant practices, usually recommended by API, but they are beyond the scope of electrical area classification

Most off-shore platforms prohibit anyone from bringing cigarette lighters on board.

I read a safety incident report once of a person who had been carrying a 9-volt battery in his pocket with some loose change. The battery shorted out across a penny and ignited some pocket fluff, which, though startling, was easily extinguished.

Are you saying if he had a butane lighter in his pocket it should be Division 2?
Edit Add: Corrected the first reference of NFPA 496 to 497

[ April 20, 2005, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: rbalex ]
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Originally posted by coulter:
Suspposing a civilian drives off with the nozzle still in the tank, tears the nozzle off and the hose is squirting gas everywhere. And the rest of the customers jump in their vehicles, startup and drive off. We don't seem worry about that.
I think there may be a valve on the pump that shuts off in such a case.
 

coulter

Senior Member
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Originally posted by petersonra:
... I think there may be a valve on the pump that shuts off in such a case.
Yes, normal installations these days have two inline, pull-apart, shutoff valves in each hose. One at the dispenser (most stations have the pumps out in the tanks) and one at the nozzle.

Generally speaking they work pretty good to prevent spraying hoses.

There is also another valve under the dispenser controled by a fragile, fusible link that shuts off the flow from the pump in the case of a vehicle driving over a dispenser or a drive-off where the hose jerks the dispenser over. The hose pulling the dispenser over used to happen a lot before the pull-apart hose connectors became common.

carl

[ April 20, 2005, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: coulter ]
 

sirdle

Member
Location
California
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Thanks for your feedback, Coulter,

I think the main difference between the gas station example and the (implied) conditions of the tariqalauddin's question is that in a gas station the ignition source does not enter the Class I, Div 2 area.

I certainly don't think it is the signs in a gas station MAKE the facility safe. I was simply pointing out that if safety is the primary purpose of the original question, then we need a broader scope than the NEC, and a better understanding of possible ignition sources. In order to properly classify an area, an engineer needs to have detailed process knowledge and some means for assessing risk. To dismiss such an evaluation (as some might) by claiming that people do it literally millions of times a day, does not seem right to me.

If an ignition source is brought into a classified area, there must be some recognition of the danger involved and some controls to mitigate that danger. I agree with you wholeheartedly that Administrative Controls can be used to serve this purpose.

Finally, I am certainly NOT advocating any new laws or regulations. I think we have quite enough of that, thank you.
 

sirdle

Member
Location
California
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Wow, I don't know where to start either, rbalex.

First of all I have slapped myself on the hand for mixing up the Roman and Arabic numerals. I promise I will never do that again!

I did not mean to imply that the NEC was the ONLY source one needs to consult to determine possible dangers. You mention several other good sources. On the other hand, the NEC, being a consensus-based standard, represents the wisdom of thousands of people and should not, therefore, be thrown out just because it does not legally apply in a given situation. I always try to install electrical systems and equipment according to the provisions of the NEC even when working off-shore in federal waters (where MMS generally allows the less stringent provisions of API RP 14F to apply).

API RP 500 does, indeed, include the possibility of "accidents" in characterizing an area as Class I, Div 2. But, admittedly, "catastrophes" (including vessel ruptures) are excluded. Sorry about the mistake. We could easily change the example to one in which a pressure relief valve opens on a propane tank due to excessive vessel pressure...

While "Electrical Installations in Hazardous Locations" may not be "authoritative," it is remarkable in that it is one of the few sources that discusses hazardous locations in plain English with a minimum of Code-speak. There are many examples and lots of pictures which is refreshing and helpful if one is interested in applying the concepts of explosion protection in a broader context of worker safety.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Nomex, I missed that one.

I think our disagreements on this topic stem from a difference in scope. I have not claimed that any of these additional sources of ignition are covered by the NEC, nor have I suggested that they ought to be. I freely admit that the NEC does not apply in this situation. But the original questioner was asking a broader question relating to plant safety. Perhaps there is NO plant policy covering this issue and it is his job to help create it! He is going to face a tough battle from those who claim there is no danger simply because the situation is not covered by the NEC. I think he could certainly benefit from you expansive knowledge of the various codes that might apply.
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

If this were Europe, we would use area classifications to make this determination. It's one of the reasons I was opposed to introducing the IEC Zone methodology in the 1993 Code cycle. It was one of my Comments that killed it that year.

Until Zones were "force-fit" into US domestic format and given their own article the systems were incompatible. Technically, they still are. Areas classified under Arts 500 and 505 can't overlap and substitutions of Division and Zone rated equipment is primarily unidirectional.

The same areas electrically classified as per API RP500 or NFPA 497 and a standard IEC area classification practice, such as the British Institute of Petroleum's IP15, would not necessarily be directly correlated. About the only thing that can be safely said is Zone 0 would definitely be Division 1. There is a tremendous overlap between IEC Zone 1 and NEC Division 2. And there are some locations one practice would classify and the other would not at all.

The point is this, in the US, electrical area classification documents are ONLY for electrical installations. This is not to minimize the concern, but to establish both proper use of the practices and the proper level of concern.

BTW people drive through European Zone 1 and 2 routinely too and there is no question that the entire automobile is in the classified location. There are some "controls" placed on Zone 1 locations, but it is still common.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

sirdle,
I think the main difference between the gas station example and the (implied) conditions of the tariqalauddin's question is that in a gas station the ignition source does not enter the Class I, Div 2 area.
I don't agree. Both the catalytic converter and the starter motor contactor will be in the classified area on many cars.
Don
 

sirdle

Member
Location
California
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Thanks Bob and Don for your comments.

I checked my truck and, sure enough, the starter motor is 16" off the ground! So I need to re-think this whole idea.
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Rick,

Well, I looked back at my "long" reply and I'm surprised I made the "Roman" Class / "Arabic" Division comment. It was petty. I?m sorry. I rarely correct things like that, except in ?official? stuff, when I understand what the person is talking about. Nevertheless, I?m sure you won?t forget it ? and probably no one else who follows the thread will either ;) .

I would like to clarify a few other things.

API RP 500 and NFPA 497 don?t consider accidents as a basis for electrical area classification ? honest. Your revised example would be considered ?abnormal? for the propane tank and ?normal? for the pressure relief valve. That?s why we typically have a 3? to 10? Division 1 location around the vent ports of relief valves. It may never "pop;" but if it did, it?s doing its job within its design parameters.

Part of the problem is there are no NFPA / NEC / API definitions for normal or abnormal. There is a difference between normal and common .

IEC 60079 defines Normal Operation as, ?The situation when the equipment is operating within its design parameters."

That would seem to be pretty good here too except for 500.8(A) (5). I?ll let you look that one up yourself. It?s always a fun reference to look up. As always, there is a reason for it although it may not be obvious.

With regard to "Electrical Installations in Hazardous Location;? again, in fifteen years I?ve never heard a member of the RP 500 Task Group mention it except to say it?s misleading in many cases. Primarily because it seems to imply electrical area classification may be applied to non-electrical equipment and that Division 2 locations are far more dangerous than they are in reality.

Properly identified, Division 2 must definitely be respected, but it is far less dangerous than many would understand. In fact, if we doggedly took the most liberal interpretation of its definition, the whole world is ?Div 2.?
 

sirdle

Member
Location
California
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Bob,

Don't worry about the Roman/Arabic thing. I thought it was pretty funny. I have 2 more items for you:

API RP 500: the text of 6.2.3 (1997 edition) supports your notion that a Div 2 area deals only with "abnormal" conditions. The definition in 6.2.1.1.b, however, suggests otherwise.

"...only in the case of accidental rupture or breakdown..."

"The quantity of ignitible material that might escape in case of accident, the adequacy of ventilation (natural or artificial), the total area involved... are all factors that merit consideration in determining the classification and extent of each location."

What is meant by "accident" in this context?

There seems to be a need for an area classification system which covers non-electrical equipment. Is there such an system? Is this the purpose of the Zone system?

(Over the past 6 years I have worked at 14 offshore oil platforms, 2 marine terminals, 9 gas plants, and various pipelines and compressor buildings for 12 different oil companies. In every case the electrical area classification was THE fundamental document that was used to determine which procedures {welding, cutting, grinding, drilling, driving, etc.} were permitted and which were not. It may not be appropriate to use the NEC in this fashion, but many, many, people do. What alternative do they have?

Actually I have another question, but I'll use it to start a new thread.
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

RP 500 Section 6.2.1.1(b) is basically a direct citation from the NEC Section 500.5(B)(2) and it's not "politically correct" to change it. (Although see the note at the end) As I said if you pushed the NEC definitions to the limit the whole world is at least Division 2. So API tips their hat to the NEC definitions and goes about the business of actual area classification.

The last paragraph in 6.2.1.1 is a summary of application. It might have been better if we had said, "The quantity of ignitible material that might escape in case of malfunction ..." instead as a follow on to the previous sentence. Accident implies "human" rather than "mechanical" malfunction. And we meant "leaky valves" rather than "ruptured vessels."

It is definitely common to use the electrical area classification documents for everything. The reason that RP500 and NFPA 497 emphasize electrical is that management often tries to get it changed when they use it improperly. I have been pressured many times to change electrical area classification documents to suit anything from fireproofing to - driving cars through Division 2. :D If you want to use my documents for those purposes fine - but I'm not changing them if they become inconvenient to you.
 

john m. caloggero

Senior Member
Re: Motor Vehicles in Class I Div 2 Area

Tariq, Since the area is classified as Class I, Div 2, there has to be two things to occur to cause ignition or an explosion. (1)There has to be a release of the gas of vapor in sufficient quantities and also be the right ratio of gas or vapor to air mixture. Depending on the density of the gas or vapor, it will determine the rate dissipation where the mixture might be below the lower explosive limit. (2) There must be an ignition source at the location where the gas or vapor is present under the conditions stated in (1). Since the location is outdoors, it would have to be a large release of the product and this would certainly be readily detected, thereby invoking emergency procedures.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top