Multi Circuits in Single Box from Two Panels

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conglo

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In a two family house, the basement has a set of lights on a circuit in one panel and a second set of lights on a circuit in another panel. Each set of lights belongs to one of the apartments. Can a two-gang box with two switches be used to control these lights or would two single-single gang boxes be required? If the two-gang box can be used would the grounds be tied together?
 
conglo said:
In a two family house, the basement has a set of lights on a circuit in one panel and a second set of lights on a circuit in another panel. Each set of lights belongs to one of the apartments. Can a two-gang box with two switches be used to control these lights or would two single-single gang boxes be required? If the two-gang box can be used would the grounds be tied together?
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I assume this is a common basement where both the tenants have access to it? The only NEC issue that i know of is 2005 NEC 210.25
210.25 said:
Branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply ONLY loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit. ......... common areas of a 2 family or mulifamily dwelling shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit.
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Also I would think there would be local landlord tenant or building code where the tenants would need to have 'exclusive use' to the electric power they pay for. If the switches are side by side the the other tenant can turn on another tenants power without their consent this would NOT be good.

Tell me if i read your post correctly.
 
conglo said:
In a two family house, the basement has a set of lights on a circuit in one panel and a second set of lights on a circuit in another panel. Each set of lights belongs to one of the apartments.
Click to expand...

Can a two-gang box with two switches be used to control these lights or would two single-single gang boxes be required?
Click to expand...

Yes a two gang box may be used.

If the two-gang box can be used would the grounds be tied together?
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Yes, required by 250.148

There might be an issue with 210.5 but that depends on a lot on the set up.
 
brother said:
iwire, what about NEC 2005 210.25?? It sounds like this would be a definite violation of this article.
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It depends on the layout, if the basement has two distinct areas, one for each tenant and each tenant is only providing light for their section that could be OK.
 
iwire said:
It depends on the layout, if the basement has two distinct areas, one for each tenant and each tenant is only providing light for their section that could be OK.
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Well looking at the op question again, hes asking about the '2 gang box'. This would mean that since these switches would be in the same box then both tenants would have acess to it, making this a common area basement imho. the phrase "branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit, seems to put an end to that idea.

Not to mention that if they had the 2 gang box with both switches, would you want another person being able to turn on power to your place anytime they want?? It may not be NEC but it would definitely be some type of building or landlord tenant issue.
 
brother said:
Well looking at the op question again, hes asking about the '2 gang box'. This would mean that since these switches would be in the same box then both tenants would have acess to it, making this a common area basement imho.
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It certainly could be but don't assume anything.
 
I have worked on houses with this same situation. 1st and 2nd floor apts, common areas are basement,rear hallways,and/or attic. I would install the basement switch inside apt by rear door that exit into rear hallway. The basement as well as the rear hallway has light fixtures controlled from each apt. The basement has seperate washer and dryer hook- ups. Tenants have pluged thier washer into thier neighbors power while they are at work, steal thier light bulbs,ect. Because thier is only one service feeding both tenants you can use a 2 gang box for your switches. Most of my service calls consist of one tenant believe the other tapped into thier power. Sometimes they were right via j-boxes.
 
conglo said:
The basement is one common area in an old house. Is this the way things used to be done?
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well that settles that question, if the basement is a common area then you cannot do that according to 210.25.

I dont understand your other question, "Is this the way things used to be done"?? I assume you talking about the shared power for the common areas?? Yes they use to just tapp off the tenants unit and power the common areas. This is no longer allowed.

If you have a common area then it has to powered by a seperate meter and the (owner) is to pay for the power for that area not the tenants.
 
conglo said:
The basement is one common area in an old house. Is this the way things used to be done?
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More common on houses that started out as one big house and they divided it up into two units. In that case, both tenants would have access to the basement for storage of seasonal items and the washers and dryers for each unit are typically located in that common basement. The "right" way is to put in an owner panel in such cases to do the lighting load, but best of luck on that sales pitch (even if it is otherwise legally required).

I've seen landlords propose all sorts of wacky things to get out of needing an owner panel. For instance, two units, 6 common area lights. Put three on each unit? A two unit building with one furnace and one water heater. Put furnace on one unit and water heater on the other? My favorite, "Put it all on unit XX and don't tell them". Yeah, nice try.
 
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mdshunk said:
I've seen landlords propose all sorts of wacky things to get out of needing an owner panel. For instance, two units, 6 common area lights. Put three on each unit? A two unit building with one furnace and one water heater. Put furnace on one unit and water heater on the other? My favorite, "Put it all on unit XX and don't tell them". Yeah, nice try.
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Had a request from a landlord to install a DPDT switch for the well, seems when one tenant would move out the power would be disconnected... :grin: I told him he needed to install a house meter, strange he never called back. :rolleyes:
 
stickboy1375 said:
Had a request from a landlord to install a DPDT switch for the well, seems when one tenant would move out the power would be disconnected... :grin: I told him he needed to install a house meter, strange he never called back. :rolleyes:
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I've done something similar, but for a totally different reason. It was a large house, remodeled into an upstairs and downstairs apartment. There was a detached garage out back. The landlord wanted to give either tenant the option of also renting the garage. A padlockable DPDT switch was installed such that the landlord could switch it over to whichever panel was necessary for the person renting the detached garage. The other tenant just parked on the street or in the drive next to the garage.

I never really investigated any potential code issues surrounding that. I am a little more curious now than I was at the time.
 
brother said:
I dont understand your other question, "Is this the way things used to be done"??
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Currently the house is wired up this way. It was done in the past. I was just wondering if it was safe and the way to do it.
 
conglo said:
Currently the house is wired up this way. It was done in the past. I was just wondering if it was safe and the way to do it.
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well in the past it was ok by the NEC. the 'safety' issue came as others pointed out, their were septic pumps that would be disconnected or lighting to keep people from fallin or triping over things. Not to mention that tenants were upset for having to pay for others power.
 
brother said:
well in the past it was ok by the NEC. the 'safety' issue came as others pointed out, their were septic pumps that would be disconnected or lighting to keep people from fallin or triping over things. Not to mention that tenants were upset for having to pay for others power.
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Right I understand that. The tenants are happy with the two switches at the basement steps, so I guess it can stay if it's safe.

How would you guys handle tenants plugging their dryer into the other tenants plug? I never even realized that someone would do that. :smile:
 
conglo said:
How would you guys handle tenants plugging their dryer into the other tenants plug? I never even realized that someone would do that. :smile:
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There's nothing to handle. If someone wants to commit theft, that's between them and the other tanant.
 
conglo said:
Right I understand that. The tenants are happy with the two switches at the basement steps, so I guess it can stay if it's safe.

How would you guys handle tenants plugging their dryer into the other tenants plug? I never even realized that someone would do that. :smile:
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Conglo, if this is a new installation and you under the 2005 NEC then those switches for the 'common area' are a code violation. and like others said people do 'steal' power from others. Ive dealt with landlord/tenant issues before, and if this 'issue' ever came up before a judge it would not be good, if it was a recent install and a code violation. Remember just because its 'safe' doesnt meant is code. I would get this change very quickly if i were you.
 
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