Multi Fam

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resistance

resistance

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WA
I’ve done Multi-family during my apprentice days (years ago), but during that time, they didn’t let us do any service work (A favoritism type shop). I’m thinking about bidding a Multi-family. what should I expect? The building is three stories high. Has 200 units. I guess I’m concerned about the service. Any input would be nice. What about the common areas? Can someone post a pic of their work. Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question. I guess I’m talking out loud. Guaranteed I’ll figure it, when i actually sit down, and look at everything in detail.
 
200 units? do you have the man power to man that size of a job?

and this is all in one building?
Fire walls?
power room inside?
unit load calculations?

This is not a very simple calculation unless you have engineered prints with all specs laid out for you.

I think the biggest problem unless you have a well manned shop is going to be keeping up if they slam this in, at my last company I worked for we walked on jobs like this as they had planed a floor every two weeks, 67 units a floor is going to be a big foot print and depending upon how they will man the other work you could get caught holding up the job with costly penelties if preformance is in the contract as a requirment.

here if you have 2hr fire walls you can do sets of meter groups to break the services into smaller gangable meter packs with meter disconnects inbetween, but it is not going to be cheap.

Are you sure these are not going to be condo's or if started as apartments end up as condo's which can give you some other pit falls to fall into with utility egress routeing through the building without tresspassing into other units.

As number five say's "Need more input":happyyes:
 
hurk27 said:
200 units? do you have the man power to man that size of a job?

and this is all in one building?
Fire walls?
power room inside?
unit load calculations?

This is not a very simple calculation unless you have engineered prints with all specs laid out for you.

I think the biggest problem unless you have a well manned shop is going to be keeping up if they slam this in, at my last company I worked for we walked on jobs like this as they had planed a floor every two weeks, 67 units a floor is going to be a big foot print and depending upon how they will man the other work you could get caught holding up the job with costly penelties if preformance is in the contract as a requirment.

here if you have 2hr fire walls you can do sets of meter groups to break the services into smaller gangable meter packs with meter disconnects inbetween, but it is not going to be cheap.

Are you sure these are not going to be condo's or if started as apartments end up as condo's which can give you some other pit falls to fall into with utility egress routeing through the building without tresspassing into other units.

As number five say's "Need more input":happyyes:
Click to expand...
-I can get the man power (many people need work. I?m sure this want be a problem. As I can start hiring a few guys way before?just to get a feel for how they work, and what they know. A Bank loan will be mandatory).
-Yes fire walls
-Power room is outside
-I will be doing a DLC for the service, and feeders to each unit. I?m sure each unit will be getting 60-100 amps.
-The full prints aren?t available. I have 6 months. I may just say forget it!!!
Just want some input on:
1. What to look out for in general
-And yes, one building. It could change.
Thanks Hurk!!
 
With that many units I would think it would be engineered and you will not have to do much calculating, just follow the plans.

Most units will probably be identical, so after you get done with half dozen or so you can do the rest in your sleep.

Good chance there will be 2hr walls effectively making it more than one building for purposes of codes. This will also allow multiple services - one per area that has separation by a 2 hr wall from other areas, but the engineer will have this all figured out for you and all you need to do is follow the plan - if engineer did a good job.

Bidding - a project that size the supply houses seem to get material lists for somehow so all you need to do is mention the job name and what you are interested in. They may have panel schedule, fixture schedule, raceway or cable information, and will give you quote for one area, or even all areas, of course you will need to figure out if something is missing from the quote and figure your own installation costs.
 
kwired said:
With that many units I would think it would be engineered and you will not have to do much calculating, just follow the plans.

Most units will probably be identical, so after you get done with half dozen or so you can do the rest in your sleep.

Good chance there will be 2hr walls effectively making it more than one building for purposes of codes. This will also allow multiple services - one per area that has separation by a 2 hr wall from other areas, but the engineer will have this all figured out for you and all you need to do is follow the plan - if engineer did a good job.

Bidding - a project that size the supply houses seem to get material lists for somehow so all you need to do is mention the job name and what you are interested in. They may have panel schedule, fixture schedule, raceway or cable information, and will give you quote for one area, or even all areas, of course you will need to figure out if something is missing from the quote and figure your own installation costs.
Click to expand...

Exactly!!! I haven?t got all the plans, and the stuff I have is useless. I?m sure I?ll be getting more from the general in the coming weeks. I?m just trying to get prepared. Never did a project this large. I think my main concern is the main service. Never ganged meters, or did anything outside of single phase.I?ve done only one CT can, and that was so long ago, I can barely remember where I did it?.LOL. Not bragging, but to be honest, I?ve always done really good work. I believe I?ve only failed two inspections in my entire career. I believe I approach projects (all) as if it?s my first time!! Sure I will have to contract out any fire alarm systems. Thanks for the helpful info.!!!
 
I once worked on an 80+ condo with 12 units per building. The EC was a really small shop, low-balled the bid and then tried to make money by skimping on everything and fiddling the payroll. He got way behind and ending up subcontracting work out. Didn't insist on drug tests for subs. Have you ever tried to understand wiring put in by meth-heads after the drywall was up?:( We could have wired it from scratch faster that repairing the aftermath.

His scrimping included having the teenager of his next door neighbor do the knockouts and cable clamps for the panelboards before delivering them onsite (paid him pizza or something).

He ran triplex as temp power to each building 120/240v. He had me install GFCIs and ground rods at each building, the whole circuit fed by a 2-pole 50A GFCI (the only OCPD in the temp circuit). I told him this was not going to work. He told me he was a master IBEW electrician, and the boss. I said fine, but don't blame me when it fails. First good rain shunted some of the neutral current through the ground, pop goes the 50A CB. He hired a guy with a bucket truck to tape a 4th conductor along the 1000ft of triplex.

He precut, again offsite, any cable larger than 12-2. Although each building was supposed to be the same, we ended up needing more cable than if he had just brought in the reels.

Through all of this he made a major enemy of the inspector. It got so bad the town contracted the President of WV IAEI as an additional inspector. The General Contractor would not allow our boss in the site trailer nor to meetings.

On another job with this bozo (I only worked one summer) we were doing a chain rest. the specs called for fixture whips in MC, the rest of the wiring in EMT. He had me put in whips up to 24ft long rather than using EMT. Next week I ripped out all the MC and put in the EMT.


There has got to be some lessons in there, over and above "don't work for a bozo".
 
If you're worried about the service, make a stink about getting the one line. I'd bet you have four or more services on a building of that size, and the reason you don't have a one line is that the electrical engineer and the utility haven't worked out the details yet.

I'd be really hesitant about taking on a building that big alone, despite wiring these in my sleep these days, but I am a big scaredy cat anyway. :)
 
@George,
I was thinking over four services on one building myself. I may turn it down. I?m in debate.

TY
 
If you can hire enough help that is great. Just be careful that you hire enough competent help or it can come back and bite you hard. Sure you can have some general laborers (if allowed by AHJ, here everyone doing anything electrical must at least be a registered apprentice) that have limited technical knowledge, but you also have to have enough knowledgeable supervision to make sure it is being done correctly.
 
Update. They gave me the wrong info. It seems it will be four building, and only 100 units.
I may be backing out, they seem to be too un-organized. Ill decide by the end of this week.
PS: It?s cloudy here, and around 65-70:D
 
resistance said:
Update. They gave me the wrong info. It seems it will be four building, and only 100 units.
I may be backing out, they seem to be too un-organized. Ill decide by the end of this week.
PS: It?s cloudy here, and around 65-70:D
Click to expand...

I don't blame you. When they don't know what they're building how would you?
 
resistance said:
Update. They gave me the wrong info. It seems it will be four building, and only 100 units.
I may be backing out, they seem to be too un-organized. Ill decide by the end of this week.
PS: It?s cloudy here, and around 65-70:D
Click to expand...

I would probably back out too if they don't get things straight and do so pretty fast. Sounds like one of those projects where they will take low bids and expect those bidders to stick to the bid even though plans may not be complete at bid time. You as well as other bidders in all trades should all get full complete plans at same time. Good job for someone else to lose money on.
 
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