Multi Family 2 meter bank needs no main disco, but a 3m bank does

[wyreman]

So this was built w 3meters and a disco.
They only need 2meters.
So what is chapter and verse that says 2m bank
needs no disco, but 3m bank does?
let me guess. Disconnecting means?

the disco is too big
and not needed

”midstate construction”

 

[LarryFine]

Main disco is needed only when exceeding six main discos, unless your POCO has other rules.

 

[wyreman]

6 movements of the hand ??Local PGE must be 3 or more. It never came up for me before, couldn’t be the city. I’ll have to review green book thanks

 

[wyreman]

1

 

[kwired]

I'll call the city and pge in the morning, but it looks like sf does NOT have special rule for disco when multifamily has 3 meters.
Pretty clear that PGE has NO special requirement
Only rule this is this poco requirement to not mount more than 2 meters on a single removable panel, that must be it.

I think they could have written that better to make their intention more clear, but I think maybe they don't want to have a single cover that is for more than two meters. Most meter centers have individual covers for each meter.

 

[wyreman]

I Most meter centers have individual covers for each meter.

Yep I agree, by why did the real supply house say that after 2 meters you need a disco, still didn’t find out. Everything closed today
also looking where it says you need a common panel [not meter] in multi family
they want two [2] common panels do they can split the usage cost

 

[wyreman]

210.25

 

[wyreman]

210.25(B) Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits installed
for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications,
or other purposes for public or common areas of
a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multioccupancy
building shall not be supplied from equipment that
supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

AHJ told me quite clearly that he doesn’t require the 3rd meter, just a dedicated panel that can be fed from any unit that wants to.
210.25 says not be be fed by equipment, not
not to be fed by a service that supplies an individual.
‘Got to look up definition of equipment now

looks like equipment does not mean “house meter” in fact

EQUIPMENT. A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires, apparatus, machinery and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

...shall not be supplied from equipment that
supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

Service Equipment. The necessary equipment, usually consisting of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s) and their accessories, connected to the load end of service conductors to a building or other structure, or an otherwise designated area, and intended to constitute the main control and cutoff of the supply.

 

[wyreman]

i would say they should be happy with even one common panel because this is a section often interpreted differently

 

[chicar]

wyreman AHJ can be wrong at times. I think this is one. A common panel must be on a separate meter. This way hall lights works even if the tenants power gets disconnected. Now in Cleveland we can install 2 lights in common areas. 1 light from each tenant, outside front and rear doors. hallways, and basement area. Thus illuminating the need for a common panel.

 

[wyreman]

Yep, confirmed w myAHJ as well, Garage door? One from each panel ok no need for common panel.

 

[kwired]

wyreman AHJ can be wrong at times. I think this is one. A common panel must be on a separate meter. This way hall lights works even if the tenants power gets disconnected. Now in Cleveland we can install 2 lights in common areas. 1 light from each tenant, outside front and rear doors. hallways, and basement area. Thus illuminating the need for a common panel.

I can see it now, occupant A never paid their bill and was shut off. They thread one of those receptacle adapters into the other tenants light, or plug into the door opener, or other tenant B receptacle that they have access to and run cord into their living space to power some "necessities". :blink:

 

[wyreman]

and? Could do same Just as well into the common panel

 

[kwired]

and? Could do same Just as well into the common panel

yes

 

[jap]

I'm not sure I'm understanding that picture.

It looks like a 400a meter with tenant main on the left coupled to a 2 meter stack.

What's the small enclosure third from the left and the large enclosure on the very far right side?
Those 2 don't seem to be part of the (3) meter group metering setup.

JAP>

 

[wyreman]

Was a mistake, a do over

it’s a little small multi family (2) building
and when you think you have to
put a third meter for the common
you’d have to provide a commercial
mod disco / 3 m bank
Which is what we present here
(400a disco on a 200amps service)
with a mod buss to the last common meter
on the left
not used

but since it’s less than six throws of the hand

And there’s just a little
200 amp service drop
with 2 ?a subfeeds





you just need a small residential
2 m can and

you can distribute the common loads
like Jack and Jill

I worked at the German embassy not too long ago
the facilities guy told me he says
in america you guys treat the electrical boxes like they’re a bank vault