Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
- Thread starter russ57
- Start date
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
Are you asking if a water heater requires a disconnect nearby like a motor or a hot tub does?
Are you asking if a water heater requires a disconnect nearby like a motor or a hot tub does?
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
4 posts and u answered your own question in 2 of them.H.I.`s well take a paid class get the certificate no test what so ever.I have 31 years in trade no schooling,non union.just a by the seat of my pants sparky.I deal with H.I.`S each week and am amazed how little they know.But what they put on paper can be a pain in the well....
JUST VENTING
4 posts and u answered your own question in 2 of them.H.I.`s well take a paid class get the certificate no test what so ever.I have 31 years in trade no schooling,non union.just a by the seat of my pants sparky.I deal with H.I.`S each week and am amazed how little they know.But what they put on paper can be a pain in the well....
JUST VENTING
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
Anyone ever read 422.34 and 422.34(C)?
If it has a switch on it that disconects all ungrounded conductors and there is a service disconect then everything is A-OK.
Ok when was the last time I saw a 220v hot water heater with a switch on it
Anyone ever read 422.34 and 422.34(C)?
If it has a switch on it that disconects all ungrounded conductors and there is a service disconect then everything is A-OK.
Ok when was the last time I saw a 220v hot water heater with a switch on it
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
Well, Once again does a MULTI family dwelling differ from a SINGLE family dwelling as to this reguard. An in defense of the offended ONE...Home Inspections do not cover only TODAYS codes but codes from years back. When and where GFCI's were to be placed and what year was each required? Well enough of the defense.
Once again...Do MULTI family residences differ from SINGLE family residences in this reguard?
Well, Once again does a MULTI family dwelling differ from a SINGLE family dwelling as to this reguard. An in defense of the offended ONE...Home Inspections do not cover only TODAYS codes but codes from years back. When and where GFCI's were to be placed and what year was each required? Well enough of the defense.
Once again...Do MULTI family residences differ from SINGLE family residences in this reguard?
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
Russ,
I'm not offended, but in my state, it is against the law for anyone to inspect Electrical work without an Electrical Inspector's License, of which most HI's do not have.
To answer your question, with current CODE, there should be a breaker lock-off device installed.
There is a pretty popular HI site HERE .
Have you checked it out??
You might even see some of our regular CODE forum members there.
Right or wrong, alot of Electriciand and Electrical Inspectors don't feel that alot of HI's are Qualified to inspect Electrical installations.
Kind of like a 'crash course in brain surgery'.
(OK, I jokingly threw that in there, but does anybody besides myself and possibly Ryan know that song??)
Russ,
I'm not offended, but in my state, it is against the law for anyone to inspect Electrical work without an Electrical Inspector's License, of which most HI's do not have.
To answer your question, with current CODE, there should be a breaker lock-off device installed.
There is a pretty popular HI site HERE .
Have you checked it out??
You might even see some of our regular CODE forum members there.
Right or wrong, alot of Electriciand and Electrical Inspectors don't feel that alot of HI's are Qualified to inspect Electrical installations.
Kind of like a 'crash course in brain surgery'.
(OK, I jokingly threw that in there, but does anybody besides myself and possibly Ryan know that song??)
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
[ November 02, 2004, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
This the one?
[ November 02, 2004, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
It would be hard to find inspectors that know enough about so many trades to do a good job.County and city building inspectors usually only inspect one trade,and from this forum we can see even they sometimes don't know everything.
If i was buying a home i can inspect for myself but many others would not be able.I do feel that if that HI causes any uneeded trips from a electrician then they should be BACKCHARGED.That might make them study a bit harder and cary a code book.If they can't cite a code then they should walk away from that item.
It would be hard to find inspectors that know enough about so many trades to do a good job.County and city building inspectors usually only inspect one trade,and from this forum we can see even they sometimes don't know everything.
If i was buying a home i can inspect for myself but many others would not be able.I do feel that if that HI causes any uneeded trips from a electrician then they should be BACKCHARGED.That might make them study a bit harder and cary a code book.If they can't cite a code then they should walk away from that item.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
I think it would end up being prohibitively expensive to have everything in a home inspected by someone who is an expert in just that little piece. You would need 5 or 10 people to do a home inspection.
Far better to pay someone to come look for common problems. At least the obvious stuff will be found.
I am not all that worried that some minor code violation will be missed in an outlet box somewhere were I to get a home inspection. I am more worried about having a solid roof and foundation, properly done electrical and plumbing, no termites, etc.
Most people could learn the basics of these things pretty quick (think how many home owners can do basic work). And if they flag things that are maybe a little unusual but actually OK, I am not too concerned about that. All that tells me is I need to get a real pro in to look at that issue.
I think it would end up being prohibitively expensive to have everything in a home inspected by someone who is an expert in just that little piece. You would need 5 or 10 people to do a home inspection.
Far better to pay someone to come look for common problems. At least the obvious stuff will be found.
I am not all that worried that some minor code violation will be missed in an outlet box somewhere were I to get a home inspection. I am more worried about having a solid roof and foundation, properly done electrical and plumbing, no termites, etc.
Most people could learn the basics of these things pretty quick (think how many home owners can do basic work). And if they flag things that are maybe a little unusual but actually OK, I am not too concerned about that. All that tells me is I need to get a real pro in to look at that issue.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
you know it too. Budgie was great. I felt the lyrics were fitting.
Wayne,
you know it too. Budgie was great. I felt the lyrics were fitting.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
OK lets try it this way,i have built over 20 homes from ground up doing every trade from lot location to the last shingle.If i was to do a very good inspection of every thing possible to see without removing anything it would take a few hours.After doing that just what have i prooved?
Nothing in reason could do the real job. I would suggest that if your not in the construction field and know little then yes hire a HI.He /she might point you too look at a few things that would easily pass your eyes.Are they worth the cost ???? MAYBE. But when they start running up your bill with saying you need EC or Plumber,etc to look at ????? and it turns out as wasted money because they did not know enough then i question there right to charge high money.I will gladly pay for a man that knows EVERYTHING.$100 AN HOUR fine if he knowes what he is citing and is correct with code numbers for year built.Others can go to ---- and just cost others more $$$$$$
Go a head blast me if your one of them.But if i pay for an inspection i don't want to hear it MIGHT have this or that wrong ,either it does or doesn't and if your not sure then why should i pay you ? Yes very hard job that few can do.And no i am not applying for the job.
OK lets try it this way,i have built over 20 homes from ground up doing every trade from lot location to the last shingle.If i was to do a very good inspection of every thing possible to see without removing anything it would take a few hours.After doing that just what have i prooved?
Nothing in reason could do the real job. I would suggest that if your not in the construction field and know little then yes hire a HI.He /she might point you too look at a few things that would easily pass your eyes.Are they worth the cost ???? MAYBE. But when they start running up your bill with saying you need EC or Plumber,etc to look at ????? and it turns out as wasted money because they did not know enough then i question there right to charge high money.I will gladly pay for a man that knows EVERYTHING.$100 AN HOUR fine if he knowes what he is citing and is correct with code numbers for year built.Others can go to ---- and just cost others more $$$$$$
Go a head blast me if your one of them.But if i pay for an inspection i don't want to hear it MIGHT have this or that wrong ,either it does or doesn't and if your not sure then why should i pay you ? Yes very hard job that few can do.And no i am not applying for the job.
problemsolver600
Member
- Location
- South Chicago suburbs
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
I have responded to a lot of HI "failure notices" on behalf of realtors who had home inspections dumped on them just days or hours before the closing, and I have little respect for their experience, or lack there of! In Bourbonnais, IL, (summer home of the Chicago Bears), the water lines to the homes are in plastic.(PV something or other). One just out of school inspector tagged the water water meter for not having a bonding jumper on it, with the black plastic pipe clearly visible on both sides of the meter. One older home had two of the circuits in a fuse box which had 12 ga wires coming in, and 14 ga wire wirenutted extensions to the 15 amp fuses. He said the house had undersized wiring and had to be rewired.
But, Illinois now requires a license, and that is only given to inspectors who pass a state approved course. And, while many of us are multi talented, and near genius, some people have to take the lesser paying jobs.
I have responded to a lot of HI "failure notices" on behalf of realtors who had home inspections dumped on them just days or hours before the closing, and I have little respect for their experience, or lack there of! In Bourbonnais, IL, (summer home of the Chicago Bears), the water lines to the homes are in plastic.(PV something or other). One just out of school inspector tagged the water water meter for not having a bonding jumper on it, with the black plastic pipe clearly visible on both sides of the meter. One older home had two of the circuits in a fuse box which had 12 ga wires coming in, and 14 ga wire wirenutted extensions to the 15 amp fuses. He said the house had undersized wiring and had to be rewired.
But, Illinois now requires a license, and that is only given to inspectors who pass a state approved course. And, while many of us are multi talented, and near genius, some people have to take the lesser paying jobs.
problemsolver600
Member
- Location
- South Chicago suburbs
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
I'm sorry, I followed the wrong question.
I have fought with suppliers (big box) on not having thermostats available for 220 volt base board and wall mounted which BREAK BOTH LEGS OF THE 220, and I mount separate two pole switches next to those which have thermostats which only break one leg, and which have NO positive off, and have electrical inspectors call my work overdone. As the man said, both legs broken, in sight.
I'm sorry, I followed the wrong question.
I have fought with suppliers (big box) on not having thermostats available for 220 volt base board and wall mounted which BREAK BOTH LEGS OF THE 220, and I mount separate two pole switches next to those which have thermostats which only break one leg, and which have NO positive off, and have electrical inspectors call my work overdone. As the man said, both legs broken, in sight.
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
As a HI, I do pay the seller any costs incurred should I be wrong about an item. Not ALL home inspectors are idiots and some take their job very seriously. Such as I do. As with any trade there are good and bad people.
The reason I asked the question is because here in Florida about 80% of the condo's do not have an electrical disconnect at the electric water heater. So, I should think all electricians are bad? According to you pro's it should be there. These condo's were wired by LICENSED electricians. As with any trade their are some who accel and some who are below average.
Man, easy on us home inspectors....
As a HI, I do pay the seller any costs incurred should I be wrong about an item. Not ALL home inspectors are idiots and some take their job very seriously. Such as I do. As with any trade there are good and bad people.
The reason I asked the question is because here in Florida about 80% of the condo's do not have an electrical disconnect at the electric water heater. So, I should think all electricians are bad? According to you pro's it should be there. These condo's were wired by LICENSED electricians. As with any trade their are some who accel and some who are below average.
Man, easy on us home inspectors....
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Multi family dwelling water heater disconnect.
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