multiple building on one site

[tzclark]

I have a customer that has 20+ buildings on one site. There is ducting between all the buildings. They inquiring if they could cut down on some monitoring cost for their security systems. What I was thinking of suggesting is to install a dsc maxsys with annunciator and graphic display. The new system would constantly be armed but all the old systems would integrate by using a 12vdc relay on the siren outputs. Each building would be independent still however it would cut down on monitoring and phone line costs as it would make them all monitored by one system. The monitoring station would still recieve which building is in alarm. There is 24hr security guards on site also. If you guys have any input or ideas I'd appreciate it.

Zach

 

[nhfire77]

I have a customer that has 20+ buildings on one site. There is ducting between all the buildings. They inquiring if they could cut down on some monitoring cost for their security systems. What I was thinking of suggesting is to install a dsc maxsys with annunciator and graphic display. The new system would constantly be armed but all the old systems would integrate by using a 12vdc relay on the siren outputs. Each building would be independent still however it would cut down on monitoring and phone line costs as it would make them all monitored by one system. The monitoring station would still recieve which building is in alarm. There is 24hr security guards on site also. If you guys have any input or ideas I'd appreciate it.

Zach

How about GSM radios? You can eliminate all phone line costs, and maintain 20 accounts!!!

A maxsys panel (along with ademco and bosch and napco) is only 8 partitions, a 20 partiition system would be a dealer only product like software house (tyco) so your idea is best.


Saving money and keeping a few extra accounts: tie 4 buildings to one GS3060 radio.(they only have 4 inputs) You could then get 5 GSM accounts.

I like the graphical annunciator idea of the maxsys. You might want to consider a key switch for resetting at the annunicator so the guards aren't using a keypad, unless you want them to.

Also if you are pulling a four conductor to each building, use the 2nd pair to capture a general trouble output of each slave panel, and make each trouble output its own zone in the maxsys.

Make sure you use surge arrestors in and out of every building. 725.141

 

[nhfire77]

DSC does have an addressable loop module as well you could put modules in each building. the main building has the master panel. That's what we do for multifamily multi-buillding properties. (edit: surge suppression!!!! great upsell and technically required 725.141. A lot of guys will not bother with it, but, its worth it and required anyway)

Also, impress upon the customer having all 20 buildings on one panel is a single point of failure, should consider individual GSM radios or 4 buildings on one radio.

If you use the addressable system, I would use two modules per building, one for alarm, and one for trouble that would fail safe into a trouble condition in the event of power loss, etc.

 

[cadpoint]

I have a customer that has 20+ buildings on one site. There is ducting between all the buildings. They inquiring if they could cut down on some monitoring cost for their security systems.

Zach

Does the company that has the equipment and monitors have a standing contract for monitoring and does this include servicing as part of the contract.

Will the company that presently monitors or has the equipment in place allow this new addition to be added to or interface with their system?

If they are pissed or upset with the present contractor for whatever the reason, cost doesn't really seem that much of a big deal with a complex of this size.

It just seems to me that there are bigger issues that the client is not opening up to you about.

Since there is 24 hours security is the owner trying to make their security the monitor and descrimator as to what an event is and the cure for all possible events?

I'm sure your quailified to install a sytem that will address the needs put forth by the client, but for me as a laymam, it just seems strange and almost scarey.

 

[nhfire77]

Does the company that has the equipment and monitors have a standing contract for monitoring and does this include servicing as part of the contract.

Will the company that presently monitors or has the equipment in place allow this new addition to be added to or interface with their system?

If they are pissed or upset with the present contractor for whatever the reason, cost doesn't really seem that much of a big deal with a complex of this size.

It just seems to me that there are bigger issues that the client is not opening up to you about.

Since there is 24 hours security is the owner trying to make their security the monitor and descrimator as to what an event is and the cure for all possible events?

I'm sure your quailified to install a sytem that will address the needs put forth by the client, but for me as a laymam, it just seems strange and almost scarey.

I made the assumption this was already his client, I guess I should have asked.

 

[MichaelGP3]

“…..all the old systems would integrate by using a 12vdc relay on the siren outputs. …..”

Unless you mean a bell or horn output, I'd consult with the panel manufacturer before wiring a relay to a siren output.



“Also if you are pulling a four conductor to each building, use the 2nd pair to capture a general trouble output of each slave panel, and make each trouble output its own zone in the maxsys.”

I'll guess that the 20 buildings have alarm panels of differing manufacturers and of differing generations. Unlike fire alarm panels, most conventional security alarm panels don't have dry trouble output contacts. Still, it is a worthwhile idea, as you could monitor the status of the load side of the transformer of each panel with a relay on the 2nd pair. While it adds to the costs, consider pulling spare conductors for future use.



You can save the customer significant money over time with this idea. Questions: are any of the buildings being monitored for opening/closings? Do any of the buildings have fire or combination fire/security panels? Holdup or duress alarms? Is it desirable to monitor the arm/disarm status of these buildings? Will the head end being proposed support a printer?

 

[tzclark]

Thanks guys for all the opinions and options. They own all the panels as some of these buildings are 100+ years old. I am not saying the alarms are that old but you get the idea. Some of these building are leased to mulitiple clients so some buildings have up to 3 monitoring contracts. The cost savings would be approx 9000 a year. I would be installing a keyswitch using the access control system to clear the code and rearm the master system. I have only looked at about half the buildings alarm systems and most of them are basic vista 15/20 but some are names i dont recognize. None of the buildings are monitoring open and closing as all this is done by Keyscan. All the fire panels are mircom and are not part of any security system. I could monitor for power fail as well just incase. I have done a similar system before but nothing with this many buildings.

They are upset with their current security monitoring company, however that end of it is none of my business. I am their electrical contractor, and they came to me after a recent installation they did that was grossly over priced and asked me if the price was fair. When i seen the price my jaw hit the ground.

 

[MichaelGP3]

"]..... They own all the panels as some of these buildings are 100+ years old......"

The age of the building(s) has nothing to do with who the panels belong to.


".....Some of these building are leased to mulitiple clients so some buildings have up to 3 monitoring contracts......"

In these cases is 1 panel divided into 3 partitions / 3 accounts or does each account have it's own system?


"I would be installing a keyswitch using the access control system to clear the code and rearm the master system."

Using a card reader instead of a keyswitch, one can look at history to see who reset the alarm.


"I have only looked at about half the buildings alarm systems and most of them are basic vista 15/20 but some are names i dont recognize."

Throw the names out here and I'll tell you what I know.

 

[nhfire77]

??..all the old systems would integrate by using a 12vdc relay on the siren outputs. ?..?

Unless you mean a bell or horn output, I'd consult with the panel manufacturer before wiring a relay to a siren output.

I'll guess that the 20 buildings have alarm panels of differing manufacturers and of differing generations. Unlike fire alarm panels, most conventional security alarm panels don't have dry trouble output contacts.

What's wrong with hooking a relay to constant output of the siren output. Coil might draw 50mA. This obviously isn't a UL installation. If you have a spare aux output, of course I'd use that, but if the panel are old as dirt, they probably wont.


Pretty much no burg panel has a trouble output, I was referring to reprogramming one of the outputs for general trouble.

A local printer is a good idea for the guards.