Multiple electric services

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hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
I have multiple electric services coming into the building ware house one story big space where new tenant is coming in. One in electrical room#1 and the other opposite from electrical room#1 in electrical room#2.

We said to provide one electric utility service but was told that they are existing. The services do not satisfy 230.2(A) to 230.2(D) conditions. However the tenant wants to provide plaque at each electrical room and be done with it.

To meet in the middle Our inspection division is willing to grant wavier per NEC 2014 section 90.4 given that there is remote control button each electrical room that activates each opposite electrical room breaker so the firefighter don’t have to walk run very big distances under emergency but the tenant does not want to agree. Just wondering your thoughts:

Questions:

1. Can you provide just plaques if services do not comply per 230.2(A) to 230.2(D)?

2. What are your opinion regarding above?
 
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hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Please let me elaborate post #1. I have strip shopping center with multiple tenants one story. One of the spaces in the strip shopping center is going to have new tenant and is going to be large warehouse for furniture and matters shopping and storing classified as Mercantile call it tenant F. Just to give you idea how large Tenant F space:

. office space = 1050 square feet
. breaker room = 632 square feet
. receiving & furniture assembly = 6032 square feet
. Mercantile = 87,464 square feet
--------------------------------------------
.Total Tenant F space = 95,178 square feet

Tenant F space has two main electric rooms call it ER#1 and ER#2 at opposite corners of the building and has multiple incoming electric utilities into the two main electric rooms. ER#1 has switchboard 208/120V with 1200A section, 2000A section and another 1200A section. ER#2 has switchboard 1600A, 480/277V, three phase. Both are existing and tenant F can access all service equipments its within their space.

We said to provide one electric utility service since the services do not satisfy 230.2(A) to 230.2(D) conditions. However the tenant F said they are existing and wants to provide plaque at each electrical room and be done with it.

To meet in the middle our inspection division is willing to grant wavier per NEC 2014 section 90.4 given that there is remote control button each electrical room that activates each opposite electrical room breaker so the firefighter don’t have to walk run very big distances under emergency but the tenant does not want to agree. Just wondering your thoughts:

Questions:

1. Can you provide just plaques if services do not comply per 230.2(A) to 230.2(D)?

2. What are your opinion regarding above?

3. If the inspection division was not willing to give wavier then would this fall under any of the other exceptions 230.2(A) to 230.2(D)?
 
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H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
If they fall under exception and provide just plaques then The two electric rooms are far apart opposite corners of building. Under emergency situation firefighters would have to travel long distance instead would the main service breakers need to be close together of each electric rooms or have remote control activator?
 
S

sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
Sounds like 230.2D would allow this setup since the services have "Different Characteristics".

In new construction or re-work of the service setup the disconnects would be required to be grouped per 230.72 (2020).

Since this setup is existing and the separate services are different voltages, if it was me, I would try to get the setup grandfathered in and use the plaques suggested.

The situation isn't ideal, but it is what it is. You can give the customer a price to change the service, they'll probably get a second opinion that will probably suggest the less expensive option and you'll lose the job.

You can also tell the customer that if they won't go for your choice you don't want the job.
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
sw_ross said:
Sounds like 230.2D would allow this setup since the services have "Different Characteristics".

In new construction or re-work of the service setup the disconnects would be required to be grouped per 230.72 (2020).

Since this setup is existing and the separate services are different voltages, if it was me, I would try to get the setup grandfathered in and use the plaques suggested.

The situation isn't ideal, but it is what it is. You can give the customer a price to change the service, they'll probably get a second opinion that will probably suggest the less expensive option and you'll lose the job.

You can also tell the customer that if they won't go for your choice you don't want the job.
Click to expand...
No. There is no requirement to group these services. Nothing wrong with this, even under current codes.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
sw_ross said:
Sounds like 230.2D would allow this setup since the services have "Different Characteristics".

In new construction or re-work of the service setup the disconnects would be required to be grouped per 230.72 (2020).

Since this setup is existing and the separate services are different voltages, if it was me, I would try to get the setup grandfathered in and use the plaques suggested.

The situation isn't ideal, but it is what it is. You can give the customer a price to change the service, they'll probably get a second opinion that will probably suggest the less expensive option and you'll lose the job.

You can also tell the customer that if they won't go for your choice you don't want the job.
Click to expand...
230.72 requires all the disconnecting means per each allowed service to be grouped in same location. There is no requirement to group all allowed services at the same location. If both services in question here were same voltage and number of phases it could be more complicated in determining whether or not they are allowed to be considered separate services, but since they are different voltage it is pretty clear that (D) allows them to be called separate services. Since this is now one occupancy they will both need to tie to same GES, but if there is building steel and or CEE it may already be done.
 
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