Recently, I have had a concern from my renter about their receptacles in their bathroom and garage. Their house was built in 1995 is three bed/two bath. Both bathroom receptacles are GFI and are tied together in one branch (15amp breaker) to the Garage receptacle (GFI). Is this in compliance to code? Their concern is they have a freezer (5 amp) plugged into the garage receptacle and when they plug in a hair dryer (1600W=13 amp) in the bathroom, the breaker trips.
Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
- Thread starter shanw
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sparky_magoo
Senior Member
- Location
- Reno
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Read 90.1 B. The installation is legal, but not adequate for the tenant's needs.
Edited to correct spelling.
[ September 18, 2005, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: sparky_magoo ]
Read 90.1 B. The installation is legal, but not adequate for the tenant's needs.
Edited to correct spelling.
[ September 18, 2005, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: sparky_magoo ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
There was no bath GFI requirement in 1995?
There was no bath GFI requirement in 1995?
stud696981
Senior Member
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
George,
He is saying back in 95 you could feed other areas off of the bathroom circuit. GFI protection was required then.
While feeding the garage off of the bathroom circuit was a poor choice, I have seen worse installations.
George,
He is saying back in 95 you could feed other areas off of the bathroom circuit. GFI protection was required then.
While feeding the garage off of the bathroom circuit was a poor choice, I have seen worse installations.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
It would probably be best to just simply install an individual branch circuit to the freezer location and remove it from the gfci circuit.
It would probably be best to just simply install an individual branch circuit to the freezer location and remove it from the gfci circuit.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
By the way, depending on the rules of your local jurisdiction, you may have to do one more change. Some areas apply the "rule of thumb" that "if you touch it, you bring it up to today's code" rather more strictly than others. If you take the garage receptacles off the bathroom circuit (a good idea), then you will have "touched" the bathroom circuit. You may be forced to upgrade the bathroom GFCI to a 20 amp circuit. If you are lucky, the wires will already by #12, and the upgrade might just involve a new breaker. But don't count on such luck.
I am sure you meant this to mean that the owner should remove the garage receptacle from the bathroom's GFCI circuit. The freezer is in the garage, so it's new receptacle circuit would also have to be GFCI.
By the way, depending on the rules of your local jurisdiction, you may have to do one more change. Some areas apply the "rule of thumb" that "if you touch it, you bring it up to today's code" rather more strictly than others. If you take the garage receptacles off the bathroom circuit (a good idea), then you will have "touched" the bathroom circuit. You may be forced to upgrade the bathroom GFCI to a 20 amp circuit. If you are lucky, the wires will already by #12, and the upgrade might just involve a new breaker. But don't count on such luck.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
that seems like a serious overreach charlie. just cause you took something off a cirucit it does not seem to me like you should have to do anything to the rest of the circuit.
that seems like a serious overreach charlie. just cause you took something off a cirucit it does not seem to me like you should have to do anything to the rest of the circuit.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
In case you did not know, Charlie is going to become an electrical inspector and is practicing how to deal with the day to day items some of us do not put much thought into, until after we do the work
In case you did not know, Charlie is going to become an electrical inspector and is practicing how to deal with the day to day items some of us do not put much thought into, until after we do the work
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
I agree. However, you will have "touched it," as I said above. I was merely advising the owner that it is not impossible that an over-zealous and strict inspector might push this point.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Who me?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
if the inspectors are so power mad that they would do this, perhaps the answer is just to run another circuit out for the freezer and plug the freezer into the new circuit and just leave the old one there untouched.
if the inspectors are so power mad that they would do this, perhaps the answer is just to run another circuit out for the freezer and plug the freezer into the new circuit and just leave the old one there untouched.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Your all missing something.First he is not an electrician,he is a landlord.Most places will require him to hire a licensed electrician for work on rental property.Very few landlords would be paying to fix whats not broke.Perhaps he is willing to allow them to pay for a dedicated outlet for the freezer.
Your all missing something.First he is not an electrician,he is a landlord.Most places will require him to hire a licensed electrician for work on rental property.Very few landlords would be paying to fix whats not broke.Perhaps he is willing to allow them to pay for a dedicated outlet for the freezer.
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Thanks everybody. If the house passed inspection in '95, surely is was wired according to code right? If the tenants want a freezer in the garage, I could propose that they should pay for an electrician to wire another branch to a GFCI in the garage dedicated to the freezer. Otherwise, I should advise that they not use the freezer in the garage. (which I'm sure the tenant won't like)
Thanks everybody. If the house passed inspection in '95, surely is was wired according to code right? If the tenants want a freezer in the garage, I could propose that they should pay for an electrician to wire another branch to a GFCI in the garage dedicated to the freezer. Otherwise, I should advise that they not use the freezer in the garage. (which I'm sure the tenant won't like)
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
The only thing that really matters is whether the new work passes inspection and whether the old work is safe. the old work does not have to meet current code. In fact, it could be a rat's nest of violations and safety hazards and in most cases the inspector would not even look at it. the safety aspect is important to you and your tenant.
It does not really matter whether it passed inspection or not. And many things escape inspectors, sometimes accitdetally, sometimes on purpose. Sometimes because they just miss it, or they don't even show up to look at the installation, or they give someone a pass, or even sometimes there is bribery involved.
The only thing that really matters is whether the new work passes inspection and whether the old work is safe. the old work does not have to meet current code. In fact, it could be a rat's nest of violations and safety hazards and in most cases the inspector would not even look at it. the safety aspect is important to you and your tenant.
LawnGuyLandSparky
Senior Member
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
What are they going to do when 2 hairdryers are used simultaniously in each bathroom? Same problem.
What are they going to do when 2 hairdryers are used simultaniously in each bathroom? Same problem.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Members, please note the time of post: 10:44 AM PDT.Originally posted by charlie b:
Ya think I would actually want to work for a living?
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Geez, if I replace a broken faceplate have I "touched" the circuit? By the way, I have had inspectors who tried to require me to add, or do all sorts of things that my rework had nothing to do with, and I never "touched" at all, like the time an inspector tried to have me replace a broken floodlight at the other side of a residence from the side where we were wiring an addition. He said it should be my job since I took out a permit at that residence. I replied that the pothole in the road at the front of my house is part of the city , and I would fix the floodlight as soon as the pothole got fixed. That ended that.
Geez, if I replace a broken faceplate have I "touched" the circuit? By the way, I have had inspectors who tried to require me to add, or do all sorts of things that my rework had nothing to do with, and I never "touched" at all, like the time an inspector tried to have me replace a broken floodlight at the other side of a residence from the side where we were wiring an addition. He said it should be my job since I took out a permit at that residence. I replied that the pothole in the road at the front of my house is part of the city , and I would fix the floodlight as soon as the pothole got fixed. That ended that.
busman
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Occupation
- Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
Charlie B,
Why not place the freezer on a dedicated 20A circuit with a single receptacle and use the exception for a single appliance to skip the GFCI. I would personally place the single recpt. behind the freezer so it is not likely to be used for other purposes and label it for freezer use only.
Mark
Charlie B,
Why not place the freezer on a dedicated 20A circuit with a single receptacle and use the exception for a single appliance to skip the GFCI. I would personally place the single recpt. behind the freezer so it is not likely to be used for other purposes and label it for freezer use only.
Mark
LawnGuyLandSparky
Senior Member
Re: Multiple GFI receptacles on one branch
If he's going to hire an electrician to install a new circuit, then he could get more bang for his buck by installing a new 20a gfci circuit for the bathroom receptacles, and leave the garage on the original 15a gfci circuit.
A freezer is only 5-7a. Hairdryers say they're 1800 watts, though I believe they're exaggerating that number for more "powerful" sales... like vacuum cleaners.
If he's going to hire an electrician to install a new circuit, then he could get more bang for his buck by installing a new 20a gfci circuit for the bathroom receptacles, and leave the garage on the original 15a gfci circuit.
A freezer is only 5-7a. Hairdryers say they're 1800 watts, though I believe they're exaggerating that number for more "powerful" sales... like vacuum cleaners.
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