Multiple high bay led failures

[Dansyco]

I am trying to put together some kind of explanation for why some high bay lights failed. I will explain.
I have upgraded a warehouse service center with Lithonia Lighting. There a IBG High Bay. They were installed as a replacement to what they had. There equipped with motion dimmers. The actual light is from Acuity.

The lights have been working great. They have brought light to the darkness of there warehouse. So here's what happened. I take my turkey day, or week. I left on a Saturday. I get a phone call on Monday. Of the 18 high bay LED's on the one side only 7 are working. Now what got me is there hasn't been a single glitch sense being installed.

So why would they fail?

So here's what I found 6 days when I returned. There are 18 in this area. 7 work. 4 of them the motion sensor was flashing green. Checked the drivers. Those 4 drivers, no good. But the other 6. I noticed black on vent holes.

Now I'm probably gonna say this wrong, but there's a input/output power block. I know I'm saying it wrong.

Here's my question. Why would all these fail at once? Makes no sense.

 

[ptonsparky]

Over voltage would be my first guess.

 

[oldsparky52]

So what has failed? Are the LED's burnt out or is the sensor bad preventing the lights from working?

What voltage are they wired at? If it's 120V and MWBCs, maybe a neutral with a bad connection? (going with ptonsparky here)

How long did they work okay? A week, a month, ...?

Any problems with other electrical equipment?

 

[Dansyco]

Ptonsparky, that's what I thought. Holds 277 consistently. Maybe 278 279.

Oldsparky52, there are 4 drivers or ballasts failing and 7 motion sensor power blocks. Not sure if that's what there called. The lights have been working now for a month. The one section of 18 now has 7 only working. Only thing I can think of is we received 2 different batches of them. Maybe this batch is bad.

 

[retirede]

Ptonsparky, that's what I thought. Holds 277 consistently. Maybe 278 279.

Oldsparky52, there are 4 drivers or ballasts failing and 7 motion sensor power blocks. Not sure if that's what there called. The lights have been working now for a month. The one section of 18 now has 7 only working. Only thing I can think of is we received 2 different batches of them. Maybe this batch is bad.

Intermittent loose neutral on 277/480 could cause over voltage on some circuits depending on how they’re wired.

 

[ptonsparky]

The neutral connection would be my thought as well. You will need to open boxes check your connections.

 

[texie]

Intermittent loose neutral on 277/480 could cause over voltage on some circuits depending on how they’re wired.

That is my first thought as well.

 

[kwired]

Or some other transient got those, and others happened to hold up but maybe were weakened enough they maybe do fail eventually?

 

[Dansyco]

Intermittent loose neutral on 277/480 could cause over voltage on some circuits depending on how they’re wired.

I'm going to go back and check that a third time. It wouldn't hurt. These runs are existing and basically it was just a swap out. The run comes from the switch and is connected to a home run branching off to each light.

Here's the monkey wrench. The other 56 on other side. I have the first one with a ballast out. I verified the flashing motion sensor and yes. It's out.

Here's a snap of the type they are

 

[synchro]

It's not likely, but make sure that the fixtures aren't getting fed with hot and neutral reversed because of some cross connection upstream. The 120-277V version may have surge protection or other circuitry that could have a problem if the neutral conductor has a substantial voltage on it relative to the equipment ground. So I suggest measuring between the neutral and EGC at the problem fixtures to verify that it's no more than a few volts.

 

[Dansyco]

It's not likely, but make sure that the fixtures aren't getting fed with hot and neutral reversed because of some cross connection upstream. The 120-277V version may have surge protection or other circuitry that could have a problem if the neutral conductor has a substantial voltage on it relative to the equipment ground. So I suggest measuring between the neutral and EGC at the problem fixtures to verify that it's no more than a few volts.

That was exactly what I thought. I am sending a highlighted path. I'm asking everyone input. Cause when I get these replaced is it gonna happen again? We are service. But I don't want the customer to think we are screwing them.

Here's the highlighted path in yellow. It's the actual drawings. The lights circled in red are the problem ones. Green switch point. In the highlighted path you will see see other lights. They work just fine.

And I did for third time went back and physically looked at each connection. What gets me is the lights that are working in between. Why did it go around those?

 

[synchro]

... Here's the highlighted path in yellow. It's the actual drawings. The lights circled in red are the problem ones. Green switch point. In the highlighted path you will see see other lights. They work just fine.

... What gets me is the lights that are working in between. Why did it go around those?

As mentioned in the posts above the failures could be due to electrical overstress (e.g., excess voltage, reversed hot and neutral, etc.). The electrical components in the lights most likely have minimum breakdown voltages that the manufacturer specifies will be met. However the actual breakdown voltage could vary significantly between units as long as there's significant margin to the minimum spec. Therefore it would not be unexpected that some lights could've survived some level of overstress while others failed at the same stress level. Of course if the stress is high enough you can break just about anything.

 

[ptonsparky]

Have you actually put a meter on this?

 

[Dansyco]

Have you actually put a meter on this?

Yes we have. As mentioned above. Ranges from 276 to 278. I would understand that if there was some flickering now and then. Or if one or two had some issues. These lights have worked perfectly. What I'm having trouble with is it was a night and day ordeal. Saturday 19 lights worked. Monday only 7. I know what can happen with a faulty wiring or a loose neutral. From 19 to only 7. That's like saying you go home. Turn on every light in your house. You come back 2 days later and only 7 work. To find that 12 light bulbs all burned up during that 2 day gap, I mean drivers not bulbs. Just a reference. Each unit barely draws .5 maybe .6 amps.
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just hate to put the new drivers and add the new starters, probably wrong name, and then same thing happen. Here's a snap of the so called starter burnt.

 

[ptonsparky]

FWIW, I have a mfg that is replacing all 37 recessed LED trim because of too many failures over the last few years. Five year warranties.

 

[hillbilly1]

Does the facility have a backup generator?

 

[synchro]

... Here's a snap of the so called starter burnt.

That's a surge protector according to:

Lithonia Lighting / Acuity RK1-701-00121-001-SURGEPROTECTOR- | Crescent Electric Supply Company

Find and Buy Lithonia Lighting / Acuity RK1-701-00121-001-SURGEPROTECTOR- with Crescent Electric Supply Company. Browse Lithonia Lighting / Acuity RK1-701-00121-001-SURGEPROTECTOR- pricing and availability for your job or project.

www.cesco.com

That lends credence that some type of electrical overstress is happening to cause the failures.


In the following Lithonia document it says "3kA/6kV level of surge protection is standard. Optional 5kA/10kV surge protection available." :
lithonia-ibgn24000lmsefaflgnd277gz1040k80crips30250bpkdwh-specs.pdf

I don't know about the availability of this option, but it might be something to consider for replacing the damaged fixtures. Still they shouldn't be blowing out with what you've got.

 

[Greentagger]

Maybe transient due to lightning strike. Saw something similar once before on new LED pole standards with motion sensors. Happened to be lightning storm night sporadically spaced lights stopped working.

 

[oldsparky52]

Have you reached out to the manufacturer?

 

[kwired]

View attachment 2554454

That's a surge protector according to:

Lithonia Lighting / Acuity RK1-701-00121-001-SURGEPROTECTOR- | Crescent Electric Supply Company

Find and Buy Lithonia Lighting / Acuity RK1-701-00121-001-SURGEPROTECTOR- with Crescent Electric Supply Company. Browse Lithonia Lighting / Acuity RK1-701-00121-001-SURGEPROTECTOR- pricing and availability for your job or project.

www.cesco.com

That lends credence that some type of electrical overstress is happening to cause the failures.


In the following Lithonia document it says "3kA/6kV level of surge protection is standard. Optional 5kA/10kV surge protection available." :
lithonia-ibgn24000lmsefaflgnd277gz1040k80crips30250bpkdwh-specs.pdf

I don't know about the availability of this option, but it might be something to consider for replacing the damaged fixtures. Still they shouldn't be blowing out with what you've got.

If that is a surge protector, it either failed on a fairly extreme transient or on rather continuous over voltage.

The extreme transient likely would have also produced other failures around the facility. Poor neutral (even if intermittent) could be more likley to cause more of a continuous over voltage.

Might check to see if this unit has output volts and if not maybe power the driver direct (even if temporarily) to see if it still works.

If you want to test out integrity of the neutral find an alternate load that isn't electronics and is significant load for the circuit, like some heating element. If you have a 20 amp circuit and can load it to at least 50% it should heat up any bad connection enough in relatively short time to make it show signs that something is wrong.