multiwire circuit 2 pole breaker, any alternate means for using breaker ties?

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howardrichman

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I'm wiring a 120V septic pump conduits into panel room, and bringing in the low V alarm wiring isolated. I need an outlet for the alarm, and considered a 3 wire multi circuit feeding thru j-box for the pump, and other for the outlet from a close by panel. I know normally I'de need a 2 pole breaker or 2 breaker tye handled, but obviously I cant have the outlet for the alarm go out w/ the pump if a short circuit occurs. Is the only way to do the extra work to install a separate outlet for the alarm?


HR...
 
LCELECTRIC said:
As long as they are sharing a common neutral there must be either a 2p breaker or approved handle tie. I don't see any other options other than running an additional neutral.
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Well; I'm using a 12/4 w/gnd. mc cable. Could I use the extra (blue) conductor as a 2nd neutral in the same J-box ?

Thanks for reply;
HR...
 
LCELECTRIC said:
No...

It can't be blue and the use of white tape, paint, or other methods of identification isn't permitted for grounded (Neutral) conductors 6 AWG or smaller 200.6(A)
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True but not without exception. See 200.6(E) Exception No. 1... but the qualifier is the kicker. Has to be a supervised facility, per se.
 
LCELECTRIC said:
No...

It can't be blue and the use of white tape, paint, or other methods of identification isn't permitted for grounded (Neutral) conductors 6 AWG or smaller 200.6(A)
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200.6 Means of Identifying Grounded
Conductors
(A) Sizes 6 AWG or Smaller. An insulated grounded con-
ductor of 6 AWG or smaller shall be identified by one of the
following means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white stripes along the conductor’s
entire length on other than green insulation.
(4) Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a
white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in
the braid identifying the source of manufacture shall be
considered as meeting the provisions of this section.

I have the '11, maybe '14 cleared it up some more. The code is a bit wordy but I think a white with a coloured tracer is ok.
 
ActionDave said:
200.6 Means of Identifying Grounded
Conductors
(A) Sizes 6 AWG or Smaller. An insulated grounded con-
ductor of 6 AWG or smaller shall be identified by one of the
following means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white stripes along the conductor’s
entire length on other than green insulation.
(4) Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a
white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in
the braid identifying the source of manufacture shall be
considered as meeting the provisions of this section.

I have the '11, maybe '14 cleared it up some more. The code is a bit wordy but I think a white with a coloured tracer is ok.
Click to expand...

But in his application he does not have colored tracer threads in the braid identifying the source of manufacture.
 
For MC cable would need to use a 12-2-2 cable (if you can find one), then you would likely have two white conductors with tracers of some sort to identify which ungrounded conductors to pair them with.
 
kwired said:
For MC cable would need to use a 12-2-2 cable (if you can find one), then you would likely have two white conductors with tracers of some sort to identify which ungrounded conductors to pair them with.
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I can find it, I call it 12/4 (white, black, red, blue & green) it works great. :cool:
 
iwire said:
I can find it, I call it 12/4 (white, black, red, blue & green) it works great. :cool:
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I'm sure it works, but still is only one white conductor.

NM cable is made and called 12-2-2 that has two white conductors - each with a tracer or other ID - I'd guess that they do make MC cable like that as well, but not sure how readily available it may be.

If code let us just re-identify say the blue then availability of 12-2-2 would likely shrink and people would just buy 12-4.

Though I also think the bigger driving force behind demand for 12-2-2 NM was AFCI requirements and the need for separate neutral conductors where people were once using MWBC's.
 
Smart $ said:
Found one... and only one. Uncertain of mfg and listing.

https://www.codale.com/index.jsp?pa...&qdx=0&ID=,Wire..Cable...Cords,Cable,MC.Cable
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Try AFC from my area http://www.afcweb.com/

Up to 12-2-2-2-2 if you want identified whites for each hot. http://www.afcweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/home-run-cable.pdf

Or 12-2 through 10-2-2-2-2-2-2 here http://www.afcweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/mc-metal-clad-mc-plus.pdf

We use a lot of AFC cable, we can get it to match typical modular furniture feed colors making connections a breeze.

However, most supply houses around me will have 12/4 in stock vs next day for 12-2-2 etc.
 
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