MWBC again

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cschmid

cschmid

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Northern cold country
today I was on the job changing receptacles in a dorm room..I locked the circuit out and preceded to tear it a part to install new one..and...low and behold it was another MWBC with out handle ties or a double pole breaker..

You guys wonder why the code is moving toward elimination of the MWBC..make a list and then submit it to see what the powers at be want to do..or do you just install the repair and hope to get paid..I did the later and hope to get paid..
 
cschmid said:
today I was on the job changing receptacles in a dorm room..I locked the circuit out and preceded to tear it a part to install new one..and...low and behold it was another MWBC with out handle ties or a double pole breaker..

You guys wonder why the code is moving toward elimination of the MWBC..make a list and then submit it to see what the powers at be want to do..or do you just install the repair and hope to get paid..I did the later and hope to get paid..
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Are you saying the yoke had both circuits of the MWBC? I'm confused on what your problem was?
 
I would disagree with your statement that the code is trying to eliminate MWBC's. They are attempting to make using them safer. Handle ties and multi pole CB's weren't require until now. I won't comment on your sudden discovery of the MWBC. I will say that most accidents involving them are due to human error.
 
cschmid said:
You guys wonder why the code is moving toward elimination of the MWBC..
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I don't wonder at all....it's quite obvious that the code making panels are catering to the unqualified workers who work on premises wiring systems.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Are you saying the yoke had both circuits of the MWBC? I'm confused on what your problem was?
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yes that is what I am saying..it was only the neutral wire though...

OK I might be hard when I say eliminate..but when I stumble on them I get irritated especially when I can tell this was done by the under qualified..

edited: the other wire was tucked up under the lip and was wire nutted with tape on it..not a professional job..
 
cschmid said:
but when I stumble on them I get irritated especially when I can tell this was done by the under qualified..
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I am still not understanding what the problem was?

Just the fact a MWBC shared a yoke without a handle tied breaker?

How long has that been a requirement?
 
cschmid said:
edited: the other wire was tucked up under the lip and was wire nutted with tape on it..not a professional job..
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Well in that case it was not required to have a handle tie until the 2008 NEC.
 
I love it when you are working on a circuit and you have to interrupt 2 circuits due to the load on the neutral that is connected to the outlet on a feed through..

no big deal but I do not do it that way at all..I think it is laziness not to put pigtails on and make it so you do not have to interrupt the circuit to work on it..yes I locked them both out..after I found it to be a multiwire..it is just a hassle and slows you down when you are in a hurry..
 
cschmid said:
today I was on the job changing receptacles in a dorm room..I locked the circuit out and preceded to tear it a part to install new one..and...low and behold it was another MWBC with out handle ties or a double pole breaker..
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And this caused you grief? :rolleyes:

cschmid said:
You guys wonder why the code is moving toward elimination of the MWBC..
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It'll never happen unless we redo most of the services supplying buildings.
cschmid said:
make a list and then submit it to see what the powers at be want to do..
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Why,
cschmid said:
or do you just install the repair and hope to get paid..
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I will get paid, and I don't see where billing a customer has anything to do with the wiring methods I'm working on
cschmid said:
I did the later and hope to get paid..
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You might want to put your efforts into some business methods verses worrying about MWBC's and unqualified people working on them.

Roger
 
cschmid said:
I love it when you are working on a circuit and you have to interrupt 2 circuits due to the load on the neutral that is connected to the outlet on a feed through..
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Well this was a code violation period, (see 300.13(B)) the MWBC was not the problem.

Roger
 
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I am not worried about it but I find them all the time and do not agree with the places I find them..like in this use it is good use..except I was not impressed with it being every other outlet for 3 rooms..and no pigtailing just feed through outlets..both methods of wiring I do not personally like..every outlet i worked on is pigtailed and now are grouped..:grin:
 
cschmid said:
I love it when you are working on a circuit and you have to interrupt 2 circuits due to the load on the neutral that is connected to the outlet on a feed through..

no big deal but I do not do it that way at all..I think it is laziness not to put pigtails on and make it so you do not have to interrupt the circuit to work on it..yes I locked them both out..after I found it to be a multiwire..it is just a hassle and slows you down when you are in a hurry..
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There's the problem: the neutral should have been spliced and pigtailed, and not dependent on the device for continuity.
 
cschmid said:
I know the problem and the code violation just irritated at the lousy job it was..:smile:
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We understand the frustration, but it's not the MWBC itself that is the problem. Many non-compliant installations cause hazards and other issues.
 
If the neutral wasn't pigtailed and it was a MWBC then there must have been 3 conductors in the feed. Didn't you see the other hot conductor spliced in the box?
 
cschmid said:
I know the problem and the code violation just irritated at the lousy job it was..:smile:
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I don't know that you'll get much sympathy. Any one of us who is in service or otherwise deals with existing installations is going to regularly encounter code violations, some potentially dangerous. It's just the nature of the job.
 
infinity said:
If the neutral wasn't pigtailed and it was a MWBC then there must have been 3 conductors in the feed. Didn't you see the other hot conductor spliced in the box?
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I did not see it in the first one..4x4 w/ 5/8 in mud ring, single gang. wire was tucked up under the lip..I was not looking for it....third recept I saw it was end of circuit nuetrals were feed through..stuck fingers in box and found wirenut tucked up underneath w/tape on it..I just got mad because if there was a load on the ciruit I could of been hurt..concrete floor metal system and conduit for ground and no grounding straps..all because of what some fool who thought they were an electrician..

thanks for letting me rant..but everytime I find a MWBC like this I say I wish they would not allow this it is very unsafe..since there is no way of stoping the unqualified from doing it..I have no ideas on how to stop it..so my way is If I can sell you a system with out a MWBC then I will..

the outlets were damaged ones that I was replacing not a whole room replace just selective ones..I check everyone before working on them with my beeper for power..just to be sure..

on the better side I found circuit (unlabeled) with tester first time..
 
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