My electrician friend was fatally injured - working hot

[tom baker]

A friend of mine, 75 years old, got across 480 and was fatally injured on the job. The building caught fire and burnt down before it could be denergized. He had 50 years experience.
Don't work hot.
http://www.msha.gov/FATALS/2006/FAB06m15.asp
Here is a MSHA list of fatalities to date for mostly gravel mines
3 electricans have died so far this year.
http://www.msha.gov/fatals/monitor/monitor2006.pdf

 

[zog]

Tom,

Sorry to hear that, I teach safety courses and this type of accident always makes me more angry than sad, the "accepted" work practices of some companies (and workers) never fails to amaze me. Just goes to show that experience is no substitute for safe work practices.

When reviewing and observing some practices/procedures I sometimes wonder if they still think the earth is flat too.

My condolences to your friend and his family.

 

[charlie b]

Thank you for sharing this story, Tom. Let us hope that it causes at least one worker to wake up to the danger of live work. Let us hope that it gets people to understand that the concept of "I've done it before and it's never been a problem" does not protect anyone.

Let me add my condolences on the loss of your friend. May he find peace in the arms of our Father, and may his family find comfort in His love.

Charlie

 

[bphgravity]

I really can't believe these events still happen today with all the education and awareness of this issue. I am saddened by the loss of your friend and can only hope it serves as a reminder and wake- up call to others out there that perform live work without appropriate protections.

 

[George Stolz]

I add my condolences as well, Tom. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[roger]

Tom, our prayers are with his family, friends, and yourself.

Let's hope this might wake someone up that may would be careless in the future.

Roger

 

[jeff43222]

I was on the phone the other day with the PoCo to discuss procedures for moving an underground service, and they suggested that I do it live. I told them there's no way I was willing to crack open a meter socket and handle exposed live conductors. I can't imagine anyone being willing to do that. It would be like that old "Operation" game we had as kids, except in this case, instead of hearing a buzz from touching the wrong thing, there'd be an explosion, plus the possibility of fire and fatal electric shock.

Sometimes I do work live, but only under limited circumstances, and I'm very careful. One example is a service upgrade -- once I'm done doing my thing, I tap into the PoCo's wires while they are live.

 

[hillbilly]

We all do it from time to time. All it takes is one mistake or slip-up.
Sorry to hear about this man.
steve

 

[ty]

Tom,
I'm so sorry to hear that news. My condolences as well.

I used to do alot of quarry work, and have even posted blast photos that I took on this forum.
It is a very harsh working environment.

Definately a sad loss.

 

[ramsy]

I almost bit it this way on a oil field pumping unit.

The 480vac 3-phase delta motor had one phase intermitently shorting to ground, I could hear the hum each time the frame and surrounding fence was energized.

I looked and witnessed how nothing would tripp from the service drop, to disconnect, to Liq. Metal Flex, to the frayed conductor insulation #10, landed on the motor terminals.

I wondered how lucky my timming was when I grabbed that metal gate to get in there, since nothing would have tripped. I just missed becomming a burning cinder without that pumping unit missing a hitch.

Sometimes, we inside guys can only offer sympathy for each other's losses. We may see how outside linemen religously use their rubber gloves, and we may even consider class-0 gloves (0-300vac?), but perhaps can't accomplish most intricate work on small wire thru bulky rubber.

Since no one here thought to mention gloves yet, perhaps for inside guys rubber gloves are prohibitively bulky, sweaty (even with cotton inserts) , and rarely thought of. I certainly didn't think of any gloves that day, not rubber or anything else. Just my bear hands.

Perhaps more comfortable and closer at hand, leather, is not dielectric rated for hot work by anyone, anywhere in this trade. In theory any glove may have provided the extra resistance between making or breaking a fatal connection, but certified, tested and maintained dielectric-class rubber remains the only sure way to reduce lethal short circuits between the hands.

We inside guys really need a non-rubber, dielctric-rated glove, which is thin enough for intricate small-wire tasks, and perhaps comfortably breathes for task duration.

IMO, more inside wiremen would think of gloves, if either a non-rubber, or a thin-skinned, breathing, class-rated solution was commonly available. Nothing exists at this time.

 

[JJWalecka]

Mr. Baker,

My condolences on your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.


Justin J. Walecka

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Roger,

We inside guys really need a non-rubber, dielctric-rated glove, which is thin enough for intricate small-wire tasks, and perhaps comfortably breathes for task duration.

Why? Doing that type of work hot is not permitted by OSHA execpt in very rare cases. Other than these rare cases, the only hot work permitted is troubleshooting, and you can use meter leads and other test equipment with the strandard voltage rated gloves and their leather protectors.
Don

 

[joebell]

Time for Change

Time for Change

First let me send my condolences to Tom. Don that is an excellent point. Those of us that have been in the field for a while used to never think twice about working on something live. In some wierd way we used to consider it a badge of honor as if it were a measure of our experience. But in the last couple of years especailly with the advent of NFPA 70E and Osha enforcing the same document, these practices are no longer acceptable. It only benifits us and our loved ones to try our best to adhere to these guidelines. I know some of the gear is not "inside guy"friendly but what is the alternitive electricution.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Joe,

I know some of the gear is not "inside guy"friendly ...

I know it wasn't friendly to the breaker test crew that was in level 4 to remove and replace 5 kV breakers for testing last week with the heat index of about 110.
Don

 

[busman]

Just out of curiosity, does 70E apply to utility workers? I have seen them use shock protection, but never arc flash protection. Are they exempt or just not following the rules?

Mark

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Utility work is outside of the scope of 70E. I think they have their own set of rules. Around here they all have to wear FR clothing all of the time.
Don

 

[ramsy]

Why? Doing that type of work hot is not permitted by OSHA execpt in very rare cases.

This may be a prevailing mindset for many electricians who associate gloves with accompanying flash suits, blast masks, and kcal clothing. Except for obviously marked or measured hot gear, panels, or medium voltage, most inside guys just don't think about gloves.

For the same reasons, and regardless of OSHA or NFPA 70E I've never seen outside guys use their gloves when servicing meter/sockets, or while crimping hot panel feeds next to the meter.

I would love to use a dry dielectric-class glove, which is thin enough for intricate tasks, not something that gets wet with sweat and will be on the floor in 5 minutes.

A comfortable glove would be welcome in my inside world, where energized circuits are commonly encountered everywhere, and the preferred tools don't detect them.

Hot neutrals are invisible to a tic tracer, and MWBS (shared neutrals) rarely originate from the circuit breaker used to safe the equipment. In some of the discussions on this forum, it seems everyone who touches officing lighting (neutrals) gets hit by 277, or blasted off the ladder by something else. I am no exception to this rule.

High-Z ground faults that won't trip a breaker tend to energize the entire grounding path and equipment chain, like the intermittent fault that energized that oil field pumping unit and metal gate, which I grabbed with my bear hands.

Whether its a neutral in a box, a gate, door knob, conduit, or cabinet, this entire stealth class of enrgized circuits, may not usually be referred to as hot work, but it is a lethal hazard encountered most freqeuently at the lower voltages. The exact kind of hazard that would be avoidable, with a dielectric work glove that stays dry for intricate work.

--
..we work more hours weekly than our GREAT GRANDFATHERS DID in 1920, and we get laid off fully EIGHT TIMES more often. I can't imagine how Jesus, George Bush or Rupert Murdoch could possibly tell us we are doing well, and keep straight faces.
-- Veronica Floss in alt.society.labor-unions Feb/2002

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Roger,
The fact that you can't easily tell if the conductor or equipment is hot doesn't change the rule...you can't work hot even when you have PPE.
Don

 

[zog]

"Utility work is outside of the scope of 70E. I think they have their own set of rules. Around here they all have to wear FR clothing all of the time."

Sorry Don, I have to disagree with that, I do 70E training for utillities and DOE sites all the time, they are expected to comply. the fact is utillity workers job/tasks expose them to a much lower (yes lower) arc flash hazard than the typical industrial electrician working on 480V. I know that sounds weird but when you look at arc flash studies for utillity systems combined with the typical working distances they use the arc flash hazard is pretty low. People usually think high voltage= HRC 4 flash suit, not usually the case.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Zog,
Look at 110.1 in 70E. It says that it only applies to installations within the scope of 70E. 90.1(B)(5) places utility installations outside of the scope of 70E just like 90.2(B)(5) places them outside of the scope of the NEC.

Is one of the reasons that the arc flash hazard is less for utility system, the fact that their equipment is not in a metal box that forces the flash towards the worker?
Don