My first AFCI's

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cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Well, I finally installed 10 AFCI Breakers in a residential setting.

While some worked as planned there were two that would not clear right away.

One was in one bedroom on the very last part of a series of devices, I couldn’t clear a light switch to luminary,
I had to redo this end of the circuit to clear.

I could only assume a nail or sheet rock screw through the hot and the neutral, the neutral and ground both read clear,
the hot to neutral toned on ohms on an open end test!

The second failure was a little more complex! It was a crossed neutral in a multi-circuit boxs, which in
conjunction was between three different luminary circuits!

What we found was the point of fault which turned out to be a 120V on a neutral!

While we were about half way through the fight we had some luminaries blinking or trying to fire from this fired
up neutral, these where CFL’s.

The original service was running on regular breakers and while I didn’t notice the firing of others circuits and lights,
it was noticeable as we tried to fix this situation.

The first problem was not labeled neutrals in the switch boxes, the second problem was that someone didn’t remember,
or maintain the difference between the numbers 9,6 & 2 on all the circuits.

Good luck in the future, Lady’s and Gentleman, while you can apply the 50% rule! You’ll have to begin all your best tools and a clear mind of thought when searching and tracing out your AFCI Circuits!.... :rolleyes:
 
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Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Probably thousands of screws and nails out there that hit 1 wire but not shorted so go undetected on houses before afci and gfi. Ever think years ago when you often found a nail between hot and grund that an equal number were hitting the neutral but we didnt know.
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
I installed AFCI's in my house and they helped me find a lot of
problems in my branch circuits that I would have never noticed before
on a normal circuit breaker. After some trouble-shooting and repairs
I haven't had a problem since. I use meters for testing purposes,and
IMO I think AFCI's and GFCI's are simply meters just like a DVM.
If they trip, there is a problem,fix it. Why are people so quick
to blame the device and not realize the device was simply doing it's job?
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
I installed AFCI's in my house and they helped me find a lot of
problems in my branch circuits that I would have never noticed before
on a normal circuit breaker. After some trouble-shooting and repairs
I haven't had a problem since. I use meters for testing purposes,and
IMO I think AFCI's and GFCI's are simply meters just like a DVM.
If they trip, there is a problem,fix it. Why are people so quick
to blame the device and not realize the device was simply doing it's job?


The device may be doing it's job but are the problems the device "finds" really problems?
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
The device may be doing it's job but are the problems the device "finds" really problems?

In my experience YES. A grounded conductor making contact with the
grounding conductor is a problem. That was what I found in my house
anyway. Once I found the connections and cleared them, the AFCI's
did not trip,thus doing it's job.
 

marti smith

Senior Member
Afci's

Afci's

You guys may find it interesting how they work- totally amazing and yet another wonderful safety item (AFCI's detect faults within the first 8 of 12 wavelengths in a hertz- and that's fast). Pain in the behind to troubleshoot but I look at it as the teacher grading the paper, and I want my paper perfect, (I curse, but appreciate that AFCI).
 

Bobhook149

Senior Member
the new cutler hammer CH AFCI breakers are neat! The neutral just stabs onto the bar. Don't know how expensive they are though
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
It's never a problem, until that nail finally heats up under a load or the gap from the house settling finally lights the back of the drywall on fire and then someone asks, "why do they always blame the electrical?".

Just because we never noticed these things as quickly, sure didn't mean that they weren't or won't be a problem.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
GFCIs made liars out of many electricans when they were first installed "everything is wired correctly"...
Most common reason for an AFCI to trip is a neutral to ground connection. Mfgs did a poor job of explaining how a GFCI works.
 
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