Nail on boxes for SD
- Thread starter mtn_elec
- Start date
- Status
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Ask him for a code reference. I've installed non-round boxes, and I've never had an inspector say a word to me about them.
The only thing I can think of is if the instructions specify that you have to use a particular kind of box for the SD, but I think as long as you don't violate the box-fill rules, the SD covers the box, and the mounting screws are in the right spots, what difference does it make if you use a one-gang, octagonal, or round box?
[ December 21, 2005, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
Ask him for a code reference. I've installed non-round boxes, and I've never had an inspector say a word to me about them.
The only thing I can think of is if the instructions specify that you have to use a particular kind of box for the SD, but I think as long as you don't violate the box-fill rules, the SD covers the box, and the mounting screws are in the right spots, what difference does it make if you use a one-gang, octagonal, or round box?
[ December 21, 2005, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
Tom.Margillo
Member
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
I think the problem he has is that you would be hanging the SD with 6/32 instead of 8/32 screws.
I think the problem he has is that you would be hanging the SD with 6/32 instead of 8/32 screws.
Tom.Margillo
Member
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Just a guess.
Just a guess.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
A device box is designed to mount a device with 6-32 screws. An outlet box uses 8-32 screws.
A device box can be wall mounted and used for small luminaires, see section 314.27 exception.
But this exception is for wall mounted boxes only.
A device box is designed to mount a device with 6-32 screws. An outlet box uses 8-32 screws.
A device box can be wall mounted and used for small luminaires, see section 314.27 exception.
But this exception is for wall mounted boxes only.
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
What would he say about all the nail-on device boxes used for garage door opener receptacles mounted in the ceiling.
What would he say about all the nail-on device boxes used for garage door opener receptacles mounted in the ceiling.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Ask him for a code reference. He's missed the boat. I don't think that he'll be able to provide a specific violation.
Ask him for a code reference. He's missed the boat. I don't think that he'll be able to provide a specific violation.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Agreed. He apparently has trouble fitting a round peg into a rectangular hole.
Agreed. He apparently has trouble fitting a round peg into a rectangular hole.
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Well I just change 3 boxes in this apartemetn so the GC could pass his rough insp. All the rest is waiting on this electrical rough so they get paid. I changed them allright, but I will nail him to the door when I see him for the final. Thank you guys for all the replies
Well I just change 3 boxes in this apartemetn so the GC could pass his rough insp. All the rest is waiting on this electrical rough so they get paid. I changed them allright, but I will nail him to the door when I see him for the final.
Thank you guys for all the replies
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
After, of course.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Maybe he thinks 314 A exc falls in this but a sd is not a luminare.There is no actual referense for sds in the NEC,I would nicely ask what code does this violate?
Maybe he thinks 314 A exc falls in this but a sd is not a luminare.There is no actual referense for sds in the NEC,I would nicely ask what code does this violate?
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
This is actually covered in 110.3(B)
From the UL White Book (QBPZ)
"FIXTURE SUPPORT
A box, with or without bracket or bar hanger, intended for support of a fixture weighing 50 lbs or less, is provided with a marking ??FOR FIXTURE SUPPORT?? on the carton to indicate that the box is for fixture support. A box, with or without bracket or bar hanger, intended for support of a fixture weighing more than 50 lbs, is marked with the weight of thefixture to be supported. Metallic device boxes and device plaster rings have not been investigated for support of a ceiling fixture unless marked
for use in ceilings, walls, and with the weight of the product to be supported. Metallic device boxes or metallic device boxes intended to be
installed in an existing structure have been investigated for the support of fixtures, smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors weighing not more than 6 lbs.
I would wager anyone elses money that you will see something like this in the installation instructions of the smoke alarm as well.
This is actually covered in 110.3(B)
From the UL White Book (QBPZ)
"FIXTURE SUPPORT
A box, with or without bracket or bar hanger, intended for support of a fixture weighing 50 lbs or less, is provided with a marking ??FOR FIXTURE SUPPORT?? on the carton to indicate that the box is for fixture support. A box, with or without bracket or bar hanger, intended for support of a fixture weighing more than 50 lbs, is marked with the weight of thefixture to be supported. Metallic device boxes and device plaster rings have not been investigated for support of a ceiling fixture unless marked
for use in ceilings, walls, and with the weight of the product to be supported. Metallic device boxes or metallic device boxes intended to be
installed in an existing structure have been investigated for the support of fixtures, smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors weighing not more than 6 lbs.
I would wager anyone elses money that you will see something like this in the installation instructions of the smoke alarm as well.
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
It should be noted that most smoke detectors have mounting plates with holes designed to align up with the spacing found in rectangular single gang outlet boxes.
IF you could not use such a box for the mounting of the detector, it would be shameless for them to provide the means to easily use them on their products.
It should be noted that most smoke detectors have mounting plates with holes designed to align up with the spacing found in rectangular single gang outlet boxes.
IF you could not use such a box for the mounting of the detector, it would be shameless for them to provide the means to easily use them on their products.
inspector 102
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Indiana
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
There is jurisdiction near me that allows the nail-on for smoke if they are red in color. Apparently they can't determine what they are for otherwise. I have never refused the nail-on for smokes mounted on walls or ceilings. Box fill is an issue if they are interconnects, 18 cu just don't cut it.
There is jurisdiction near me that allows the nail-on for smoke if they are red in color. Apparently they can't determine what they are for otherwise. I have never refused the nail-on for smokes mounted on walls or ceilings. Box fill is an issue if they are interconnects, 18 cu just don't cut it.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
But this is for boxes cut in after the ceiling is covered in sheetrock.. Would this apply to a nail-on box as mentioned in the OP?
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Nail on boxes for SD
Pierre a fixture constitutes a fixture/luminare/light not a sd I will read the installation instructions in the am,doubt it reqires an 8/32 fixture box.
1000`s of sd`s and have never beed gigged for this.
Pierre a fixture constitutes a fixture/luminare/light not a sd
I will read the installation instructions in the am,doubt it reqires an 8/32 fixture box.1000`s of sd`s and have never beed gigged for this.
- Status