Nap yesterday - Learned today

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I dropped my spouse of at PT and figured I had 45 minutes of nap time. Found a shade tree and parked under it. Nice nap. Motor barely turned over at start attempt. Dang. Two vehicles with batteries out in the same month. Called brother and he was excited to be able to use his plus cell phone sized jump pack. I tried again just before we hooked him up. Started with a groan. Figured out battery is about 3.5 years old. Due to my recent experience with my Ram batteries, I now have a good charger and a load tester. Did a quick charge, waited a couple hours and tested good. Put low rate charge on all night. Waited and hour or so & checked again. Still good. Hmmm. Toyota Sienna FWIW.

What was my problem and along the same line what did I learn today?
 

MD Automation

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Engineer
My vote is corrosion between a post and battery clamp. Had it happen numerous times to me over the years. And it's crazy how the slightest, sometimes imperceptible amount of corrosion, can flow plenty of current - until - you want to start it.

Easy to diagnose if you have a DVM and a second person. Pick a suspect battery post (you have only 2 choices!), put one lead on the middle of the actual post and the other lead on the clamp itself. When you engage the starter, a problematic connection will show multiple volts of VD.

This is a common problem in my wife's 02 Sienna. I have a small hammer in the car for her and she knows how to slightly "tap" a battery clamp from the side to rotate it just the slightest amount. The car starts, she let's me know, and when I can I take the connection apart and wire brush it.

And now a 1 minute story that is on topic. I know almost everyone here likely had a person in their younger life that really showed them how things worked. Mine was Bill Burns, a wonderful Irish gentleman whose day job was working for the MTA (Subway) in NYC. Bill was unafraid to tackle just about any kind of repair and his "been there- seen that" list was quite long! One day in Brooklyn, late 60s or early 70s the family '65 Impala station wagon won't start. Bill comes over, no tools or meters, pops the hood, turns on the headlights, tries to start the car, goes hmm, then asks me to run to the basement and get a hammer and real small finishing nail. Both puzzled and curious, I do exactly that while wondering how he's going to fix anything with a hammer?! And a nail ?!?! He takes the small brad and hammers it down between the outside of a battery lead post and the inside of the clamp. The car starts right up and he explains what the problem was, what his quick fix did and that it would be perfectly fine for a few days until we could take it apart and clean it properly.
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
My vote is corrosion between a post and battery clamp. Had it happen numerous times to me over the years. And it's crazy how the slightest, sometimes imperceptible amount of corrosion, can flow plenty of current - until - you want to start it.

Easy to diagnose if you have a DVM and a second person. Pick a suspect battery post (you have only 2 choices!), put one lead on the middle of the actual post and the other lead on the clamp itself. When you engage the starter, a problematic connection will show multiple volts of VD.

This is a common problem in my wife's 02 Sienna. I have a small hammer in the car for her and she knows how to slightly "tap" a battery clamp from the side to rotate it just the slightest amount. The car starts, she let's me know, and when I can I take the connection apart and wire brush it.

And now a 1 minute story that is on topic. I know almost everyone here likely had a person in their younger life that really showed them how things worked. Mine was Bill Burns, a wonderful Irish gentleman whose day job was working for the MTA (Subway) in NYC. Bill was unafraid to tackle just about any kind of repair and his "been there- seen that" list was quite long! One day in Brooklyn, late 60s or early 70s the family '65 Impala station wagon won't start. Bill comes over, no tools or meters, pops the hood, turns on the headlights, tries to start the car, goes hmm, then asks me to run to the basement and get a hammer and real small finishing nail. Both puzzled and curious, I do exactly that while wondering how he's going to fix anything with a hammer?! And a nail ?!?! He takes the small brad and hammers it down between the outside of a battery lead post and the inside of the clamp. The car starts right up and he explains what the problem was, what his quick fix did and that it would be perfectly fine for a few days until we could take it apart and clean it properly.

Corrosion is a common problem. I have used the nail trick. These days, I always spray the battery connections with a coating designed to minimize corrosion. Seems to help.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Corrosion is a common problem. I have used the nail trick. These days, I always spray the battery connections with a coating designed to minimize corrosion. Seems to help.
Another slightly more destructive quick fix from the days when the clamp was lead too: Take a hammer and screwdriver and indent the junction between post and clamp.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
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Location
Bremerton, Washington
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Master Electrician
Does the Sienna have key fob? was the fob and vehicle communicating that ran battery down? This can happen if fob is kept close to vehicle when vehicle is parked
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
We all know not to leave our lights on. We have become dependent on Auto off for them.
I did not realize that the auto off sequence for Toyota starts when a door opens. Delayed or immediate.

I parked, opened windows, shut my eyes, and the lights stayed on for the entire time

Poor design.
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
We all know not to leave our lights on. We have become dependent on Auto off for them.
I did not realize that the auto off sequence for Toyota starts when a door opens. Delayed or immediate.

I parked, opened windows, shut my eyes, and the lights stayed on for the entire time

I agree, poor design. The auto off requires a door to open and then close again.

Leave the doors open, lights stay on. Don't open a door, lights stay on.

I miss my Subaru: engine off, lights off.

Jon
 

mayanees

Senior Member
Location
Westminster, MD
Occupation
Electrical Engineer and Master Electrician
We all know not to leave our lights on. We have become dependent on Auto off for them.
I did not realize that the auto off sequence for Toyota starts when a door opens. Delayed or immediate.

I parked, opened windows, shut my eyes, and the lights stayed on for the entire time
Were your keys in the ignition? My Subaru leaves the lights on if the keys are in the ignition if the lights are on AUTO. Otherwise they shut off.
 

MD Automation

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Engineer
I parked, opened windows, shut my eyes, and the lights stayed on for the entire time

I agree, really poor design!

I also would propose that my hammer and nail solution would have helped you out. You would have needed 2 nails though, 1 each to drive into the right and left headlamp. Then the battery would drain much slower.

If you wanted to be really cheap - you could have skipped the nails and just used the hammer ;)
 

GoldDigger

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Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
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Retired PV System Designer
I agree, really poor design!

I also would propose that my hammer and nail solution would have helped you out. You would have needed 2 nails though, 1 each to drive into the right and left headlamp. Then the battery would drain much slower.

If you wanted to be really cheap - you could have skipped the nails and just used the hammer ;)
You are assuming (or knowing?) that the daytime running lights use the main headlamps and not separate bulbs?
 
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