NEC 2014 section 250.64(D)(3)

[hhsting]

Attached sketch has two service disconnect fed from wire way which is fed from one electric utility service.

The main service grounding electrode system is suppose to be per NEC 2014 section 250.64(D)(3). One grounding electrode conductor is provided which goes to underground water metal pipe electrode.

However in the sketch the same one grounding electrode has one conductor tap/joined/connected from the same one grounding electrode conductor which goes to bldg steel, one additional conductor tap/joined/connected from the same one grounding electrode conductor which goes to ground rods and one additional conductor tap/joined/connected from the same one grounding electrode conductor which goes to concrete encased electrode.

I looked into NEC 2014 250.64(C) but still confuse. I am not sure if the above tap/connection/joining from grounding electrode conductor is allowed and be in compliance with NEC 2014 Sections 250.64(D)(3) and 250.64(C)?

 

[infinity]

You run the GEC to the water pipe electrode and then install bonding jumpers to the other electrodes with split bolts. That's all that's required. You do not need ground rods with a CEE.

 

[hhsting]

I also have intersystem bonding terminal connected to the same grounding electrode conductor to water pipe in sketch post #1 with #6 AWG conductor Not shown in sketch. NEC 2014 section 250.94(5) says should be connected to grounding electrode conductor. However this is in contradiction with NEC 2014 section 250.64(C) says grounding electrode conductor be installed without splice or joint one continuous length.

Am I missing something? What gives?

 

[infinity]

What you're missing is that the GEC is required to be continuous from the neutral to the water pipe electrode. All others connections to the GEC are made by bonding jumpers that are not required to be continuous.

 

[hhsting]

What you're missing is that the GEC is required to be continuous from the neutral to the water pipe electrode. All others connections to the GEC are made by bonding jumpers that are not required to be continuous.

So attached sketch added the intersystem bonding terminal. I still don’t follow.

Your saying All the conductors except intersystem bonding terminal from GEC to water pipe are GEC.

Intersystem Terminal #6 AWG connected to GEC water pipe is bonding jumper? How is then GEC to water pipe continuous it is joined by bonding jumper but NEC 2014 section 250.94(5) says should be connected to grounding electrode conductor but NEC 2014 section 250.64(C) does not allow it?

 

[infinity]

My first post stated that you connect the bonding jumper to the GEC with a split bolt therefore the GEC is unbroken. Bonding jumpers to the GEC are permitted to be connected with split bolts.

 

[hhsting]

My first post stated that you connect the bonding jumper to the GEC with a split bolt therefore the GEC is unbroken. Bonding jumpers to the GEC are permitted to be connected with split bolts.

Ok so move all the rest of the conductors to water pipe and connect their with GEC to water pipe. This means that #6 AWG to intersystem bonding terminal would also be moved to the water pipe?

 

[infinity]

Sounds like you're asking about 250.94(A)(4) is that correct?

250.94(A) The Intersystem Bonding Termination Device.
(4) At the service equipment, be securely mounted and electrically connected to an enclosure for the service equipment, to the meter enclosure, or to an exposed nonflexible metallic service raceway, or be mounted a one of these enclosures and be connected to the enclosure or to the grounding electrode conductor with a minimum 6 AWG copper conductor.

 

[hhsting]

Sounds like you're asking about 250.94(A)(4) is that correct?

Yes post #5 sketch added intersystem bonding which is connected to GEC water pipe with #6 AWG but 250.64(C) requires this GEC to be continuous not to have any joints or connection. So according post #6 intersystem terminal #6 AWG conductor can be moved to water pipe as well?

 

[Little Bill]

Yes post #5 sketch added intersystem bonding which is connected to GEC water pipe with #6 AWG but 250.64(C) requires this GEC to be continuous not to have any joints or connection. So according post #6 intersystem terminal #6 AWG conductor can be moved to water pipe as well?

It's just a connection point for utilities to tie their ground to. It's not causing the GEC to be unbroken. Do as was said, remove the ground rods if you want, leave the solid connection to the water pipe. The rest are just bonding jumpers. Nothing in your sketch is causing the GEC to be "not continuous".

 

[hhsting]

It's just a connection point for utilities to tie their ground to. It's not causing the GEC to be unbroken. Do as was said, remove the ground rods if you want, leave the solid connection to the water pipe. The rest are just bonding jumpers. Nothing in your sketch is causing the GEC to be "not continuous".

ok from the way I understand Post #2 was to relocate all the conductors connected to GEC to underground water pipe like shown on the attached sketch to the under ground water pipe itself??

 

[Little Bill]

ok from the way I understand Post #2 was to relocate all the conductors connected to GEC to underground water pipe like shown on the attached sketch to the under ground water pipe itself??

You don't need to move anything to the water pipe. The bonding jumpers should be connected to the GEC by split bolts. If they are, they can stay where they are. The main GEC connection is to the pipe, the supplemental, or bonding jumpers just need to connect to the GEC.

 

[hhsting]

You don't need to move anything to the water pipe. The bonding jumpers should be connected to the GEC by split bolts. If they are, they can stay where they are. The main GEC connection is to the pipe, the supplemental, or bonding jumpers just need to connect to the GEC.

I see. Plans I have just say listed connector at point where connection is made to Main GEC to under ground water pipe no mention of split bolts. Conductor from main GEC to secondary grounding electrode can be connected using split bolt in NEC 2014 section 250?

I looked but only thing found was 250.64(C) which says irreversible compression type connector that is listed as grounding/bonding equipment or the exothermic welding process is used.

 

[Another C10]

In California were not typically allowed to add anything to the utility system upside of the meters, this is a typical bonding installation
I have done several times without an inspector ever questioning it. Including all the other bonds you have mentioned.

I'm sure some may critique it here though.





My suggestion is use the NEC 2020 book, it seems codes do change a tad every addition.

 

[infinity]

I see. Plans I have just say listed connector at point where connection is made to Main GEC to under ground water pipe no mention of split bolts. Conductor from main GEC to secondary grounding electrode can be connected using split bolt in NEC 2014 section 250?

I looked but only thing found was 250.64(C) which says irreversible compression type connector that is listed as grounding/bonding equipment or the exothermic welding process is used.

A split bolt is a listed connector. Irreversible or exothermic welding is only required when splicing the GEC to make it continuous. Your original plan with "taps" to the GEC is fine as long as the POCO allows the GEC to connect to the neutral within the wireway.

 

[hhsting]

A split bolt is a listed connector. Irreversible or exothermic welding is only required when splicing the GEC to make it continuous. Your original plan with "taps" to the GEC is fine as long as the POCO allows the GEC to connect to the neutral within the wireway.

Ok but There must be some section in NEC 2014 which says GEC can be connected by conductor to secondary electrode with listed connector?

 

[Another C10]

Also in my State, Bonding from the Utility neutral reference (located on the neutral buss after the Meter .. when hitting the electrode - water - gas - or building steel the conductor cannot be cut, it must loop in and out of the approved clamp of such without a break in the conductor. Or multiple Grounding conductors from the same Utility reference mentioned above can go to a variety of bonding points again with no cuts (if being looped)

Reason is they don't want a poor connection at any given bond point to fail due to being loose.

 

[infinity]

Also in my State, Bonding from the Utility neutral reference (located on the neutral buss after the Meter .. when hitting the electrode - water - gas - or building steel the conductor cannot be cut, it must loop in and out of the approved clamp of such without a break in the conductor. Or multiple Grounding conductors from the same Utility reference mentioned above can go to a variety of bonding points again with no cuts (if being looped)

Reason is they don't want a poor connection at any given bond point to fail due to being loose.

Is that a local code amendment? There is no requirement to do that in the NEC.

 

[hhsting]

I don’t see how the rest of the conductors connected from GEC water pipe to grounding electrode in the sketch post #5 are bonding jumpers? Bonding jumpers connect between two metal parts definition of bonding jumper NEC 2014 Section 100.

However in sketch except for intersystem bonding terminal rest of conductors connect grounding electrode to system grounded conductor definition of grounding electrode conductor NEC 2014 section 100. Are they not grounding electrode conductor?

 

[ActionDave]

I don’t see how the rest of the conductors connected from GEC water pipe to grounding electrode in the sketch post #5 are bonding jumpers? Bonding jumpers connect between two metal parts definition of bonding jumper NEC 2014 Section 100.

However in sketch except for intersystem bonding terminal rest of conductors connect grounding electrode to system grounded conductor definition of grounding electrode conductor NEC 2014 section 100. Are they not grounding electrode conductor?

They are all part of the Grounding Electrode System