NEC 422.51 Question Vending Machine GFCI interpretation

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From the statement below, how do you interpret the code? If the machine is located outdoor, and is dispensing tickets for customers, does NEC 422.51 applied or the code only apply for dispensing bigger thing?

What I am thinking is the incoming power 120A 30A Circuit should has an inline GFCI from the machine directly. Am i correct on that assumption? The circuit has it device ground tied to a grounding system on the ground and circuit ground as well

NEC 422.51
Cord-and Plug-Connected.Cord-and plug-connected vending machines manufactured or remanufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include a ground-fault circuit interrupter identified for portable use as an integral part of the attachment plug or be located within 300 mm (12 in.) of
the attachment plug. Older vending machines manufactured or remanufactured prior to January 1, 2005, shall be connected to a GFCI-protected outlet.
(B) Other Than Cord-and Plug-Connected.Vending machines not utilizing a cord and plug connection shall be connected to a ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected circuit
 
Are people paying for these tickets?

A ticket is a product.

Vending Machine.
Any self-service device that dispenses
products or merchandise without the necessity of replenish-
ing the device between each vending operation and is de-
signed to require insertion of coin, paper currency, token,
card, key, or receipt of payment by other means
 
Is this really a 30 amp plug & cord machine? Just curious.

Article 210.8 of the code only requires GFCI for 15 and 20 amp outlets in certain circumstances. But 422.51 requires it of all vending machines, regardless of the voltage or current rating. I had not noticed that before.

My answer is that the machine to which you refer is most likely less than 12 years old. In that case, if it is plug & cord connected, the manufacturer was required to include GFCI protection in the attachment cord. If it is hard wired, then the installing electrician is required to make sure the breaker serving that machine is a GFCI-type breaker, or that GFCI protection is provided at or upstream of the connection point.
 
vending machine

vending machine

I think the OP is describing a ticket dispenser like we see in a parking garage where you push a button and it spits out a ticket. If that is the case this is not a vending in the eyes of the NEC. See 422.2 and note that more than just pushing a button would be required to make it a vending machine. The same questions arise with the self serve beverage dispensers at the fast food joints-they are not vending machines either under the 2014 edition.
It may be of interest to note that under the 2017 edition this is all changing as 422.2 and 422.51 are gone. It is my understanding that this was done partly because of all the confusion such as this and they fixed this by adding 422.6 which will require all appliances to be listed and put all the burden of what type of appliance it is by its listing. The listing of the product will be the determining factor as to whether a GFCI is required.
 
texie said:
I think the OP is describing a ticket dispenser like we see in a parking garage where you push a button and it spits out a ticket. If that is the case this is not a vending in the eyes of the NEC. See 422.2 and note that more than just pushing a button would be required to make it a vending machine. The same questions arise with the self serve beverage dispensers at the fast food joints-they are not vending machines either under the 2014 edition.
It may be of interest to note that under the 2017 edition this is all changing as 422.2 and 422.51 are gone. It is my understanding that this was done partly because of all the confusion such as this and they fixed this by adding 422.6 which will require all appliances to be listed and put all the burden of what type of appliance it is by its listing. The listing of the product will be the determining factor as to whether a GFCI is required.
Click to expand...
The other end of the parking scheme where you put either your ticket and a credit card or a validated ticket into the machine and it opens an exit gate would have the pay portion of the vending machine definition, but it would be arguable whether opening the gate to let out would be considered delivering a product.
In some parking garages you enter your phone number at entry, pay based on that phone number at a cash or card machine just before leaving, and enter the phone number after paying to get out. The phone number becomes a non-physical token.
 
jumper said:
Are people paying for these tickets?

A ticket is a product.

Vending Machine.
Any self-service device that dispenses
products or merchandise without the necessity of replenish-
ing the device between each vending operation and is de-
signed to require insertion of coin, paper currency, token,
card, key, or receipt of payment by other means
Click to expand...


Yes they are paying for the ticket/card
 
texie said:
I think the OP is describing a ticket dispenser like we see in a parking garage where you push a button and it spits out a ticket. If that is the case this is not a vending in the eyes of the NEC. See 422.2 and note that more than just pushing a button would be required to make it a vending machine. The same questions arise with the self serve beverage dispensers at the fast food joints-they are not vending machines either under the 2014 edition.
It may be of interest to note that under the 2017 edition this is all changing as 422.2 and 422.51 are gone. It is my understanding that this was done partly because of all the confusion such as this and they fixed this by adding 422.6 which will require all appliances to be listed and put all the burden of what type of appliance it is by its listing. The listing of the product will be the determining factor as to whether a GFCI is required.
Click to expand...
It will be dispensing ticket or plastic card for you to ride train
 
charlie b said:
Is this really a 30 amp plug & cord machine? Just curious.

Article 210.8 of the code only requires GFCI for 15 and 20 amp outlets in certain circumstances. But 422.51 requires it of all vending machines, regardless of the voltage or current rating. I had not noticed that before.

My answer is that the machine to which you refer is most likely less than 12 years old. In that case, if it is plug & cord connected, the manufacturer was required to include GFCI protection in the attachment cord. If it is hard wired, then the installing electrician is required to make sure the breaker serving that machine is a GFCI-type breaker, or that GFCI protection is provided at or upstream of the connection point.
Click to expand...


Sorry…typo..20A circuit breaker.
 
GoldDigger said:
The other end of the parking scheme where you put either your ticket and a credit card or a validated ticket into the machine and it opens an exit gate would have the pay portion of the vending machine definition, but it would be arguable whether opening the gate to let out would be considered delivering a product.
In some parking garages you enter your phone number at entry, pay based on that phone number at a cash or card machine just before leaving, and enter the phone number after paying to get out. The phone number becomes a non-physical token.
Click to expand...

I understand for parking system, you are not actually paying for it and getting some product in return. As for this case, customer actually pay with credit card or cash and get a ticket or plastic card in return to ride train
 
However, you all can debate it more in the 2017 NEC since the definition of Vending Machine has been removed...:angel:
 
Yep.....that was the funny part. It took two cycles to get a definition in the NEC because people were confused at what a "Vending Machine" was and then once it got in it was argued that it is an appliance and thus the definition was removed. Just found it kinda funny but I carried no weight on that debate in CMP 17.

But yes, the term was retained in 422.5 under appliances.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
Yep.....that was the funny part. It took two cycles to get a definition in the NEC because people were confused at what a "Vending Machine" was and then once it got in it was argued that it is an appliance and thus the definition was removed. Just found it kinda funny but I carried no weight on that debate in CMP 17.

But yes, the term was retained in 422.5 under appliances.
Click to expand...

For the OP I will use the UL scope definition and say it is a vending machine.

1 Scope

1.1 These requirements cover self-contained, payment-accepting, vending machines that vend non-refrigerated products to be employed in accordance with the National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70. Vending machines as covered by this standard are intended for indoor use only, except that they will be investigated for outdoor use or use in a protected location if so designated by the manufacturer.

https://standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_751
 
jumper said:
For the OP I will use the UL scope definition and say it is a vending machine.

1 Scope

1.1 These requirements cover self-contained, payment-accepting, vending machines that vend non-refrigerated products to be employed in accordance with the National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70. Vending machines as covered by this standard are intended for indoor use only, except that they will be investigated for outdoor use or use in a protected location if so designated by the manufacturer.

https://standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_751
Click to expand...

Works for me.......
 
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