NEC encasing conduit in concrete

[EETESLAEE]

Hi!

I have a service that terminates in a SEB in NYC. I am planning to tap the SEB and run it to a new CT/Disconnect.
I have an electrician saying that the feeder needs to be encased in concrete. I have not seen this ever done.
If this is needed, what code section covers this? I did my research but couldn't find much.

Thank you!

 

[Choice_Gorilla]

I don’t know the acronym SEB, but I did a job in Boston where the service came into the basement of the building into a 24x24 we referred to a Tap can. From there it was piped across the basement and up into a disconnect by the front door. Since the wire was unfused inside the basement and there was access for the tenants, the inspector had us encase the conduit in concrete through the basement. I don’t have a code reference, I was an apprentice at the time so I guess this anecdotal more than anything, but it was done there so it wouldn’t surprise me if some local code requires it.

 

[augie47]

It is covered by Art 230.6

 

[Strathead]

Hi!

I have a service that terminates in a SEB in NYC. I am planning to tap the SEB and run it to a new CT/Disconnect.
I have an electrician saying that the feeder needs to be encased in concrete. I have not seen this ever done.
If this is needed, what code section covers this? I did my research but couldn't find much.

Thank you!

Is this inside or outside?

 

[infinity]

Service End Box. What is the distance you're running with the service conductors?

 

[charlie b]

Once the service conductors enter the building, they need to connect to an overcurrent device. The code says something about, "nearest the point of entry." That phrase has been the subject of much discussion. Some jurisdictions have their own rules that specify a maximum distance (WA state's limit is 15 feet). If you need the conductors to run some distance inside the building before hitting the SEB, then encasing them in concrete causes them to be considered "outside the building," for the purposes of this rule.

 

[Strathead]

Once the service conductors enter the building, they need to connect to an overcurrent device. The code says something about, "nearest the point of entry." That phrase has been the subject of much discussion. Some jurisdictions have their own rules that specify a maximum distance (WA state's limit is 15 feet). If you need the conductors to run some distance inside the building before hitting the SEB, then encasing them in concrete causes them to be considered "outside the building," for the purposes of this rule.

In my county it is immediately, back to back or if out of the floor, no elbows or LB's.

 

[Choice_Gorilla]

Once the service conductors enter the building, they need to connect to an overcurrent device. The code says something about, "nearest the point of entry." That phrase has been the subject of much discussion. Some jurisdictions have their own rules that specify a maximum distance (WA state's limit is 15 feet). If you need the conductors to run some distance inside the building before hitting the SEB, then encasing them in concrete causes them to be considered "outside the building," for the purposes of this rule.

That would be the case in my instance. The Disconnect was Inside right by the front door, but the conductors went a good 40’ through the basement if I remember correctly.

 

[infinity]

In NYC we typically see 10' of raceway within a 2 hour rated service room without any protection. Sometimes more depending on the design and what gets approved. Here it's about 20' of EMT.

 

[electrofelon]

Hi!

I have a service that terminates in a SEB in NYC. I am planning to tap the SEB and run it to a new CT/Disconnect.
I have an electrician saying that the feeder needs to be encased in concrete. I have not seen this ever done.
If this is needed, what code section covers this? I did my research but couldn't find much.

Thank you!

I think you got your answer, but I just wanted to point out that you used the incorrect term. If it was actually a feeder, there would not be such a requirement (unless it was from another structure and you needed to evoke the 230.6 rules to get to the disconnect).

 

[infinity]

I think you got your answer, but I just wanted to point out that you used the incorrect term. If it was actually a feeder, there would not be such a requirement (unless it was from another structure and you needed to evoke the 230.6 rules to get to the disconnect).

Correct, what is described in the OP is not a feeder as it is connected directly the service conductors.

 

[EETESLAEE]

Thank you everyone!

@infinity I have the SEB at one side of the room and the CT next to it while the disconnect switch is on the other side of the room (about 20-25' of wire length). What would be the reason for the electrician to say that it is not acceptable? He keeps referring to disconnect switch grouping and having the OCP at the nearest point of the POE but we can't do that due to spacing.

I think you got your answer, but I just wanted to point out that you used the incorrect term. If it was actually a feeder, there would not be such a requirement (unless it was from another structure and you needed to evoke the 230.6 rules to get to the disconnect).

@electrofelon Thank you for pointing this out. The "wiring" I am talking about are between the SEB and CT or disconnect switch. What is the proper term to use here?

 

[infinity]

@infinity I have the SEB at one side of the room and the CT next to it while the disconnect switch is on the other side of the room (about 20-25' of wire length). What would be the reason for the electrician to say that it is not acceptable? He keeps referring to disconnect switch grouping and having the OCP at the nearest point of the POE but we can't do that due to spacing.

It's a call for the AHJ to make. IMO 20-25' is too far so you would need to encase the raceway in 2" of concrete. If you can get it approved without encasement at 25' in length then that's all that's required.

 

[charlie b]

@electrofelon Thank you for pointing this out. The "wiring" I am talking about are between the SEB and CT or disconnect switch. What is the proper term to use here?

Now I am confused. The service conductors generally start at a utility-owned transformer outside the building. I'll assume that is the case here. You say there is a disconnect on the opposite side of the building from the SEB. Questions:
1. Do the service conductors first land on that disconnect, then run to the SEB?
2. Does that disconnect include overcurrent protection?
3. If those are both "yes," how far is the disconnect from the point that the service conductors enter the building?

Once the service conductors hit an overcurrent device, whatever is downstream of that device does not need concrete encasement.

Please clarify the situation.

 

[infinity]

1. Do the service conductors first land on that disconnect, then run to the SEB?
2. Does that disconnect include overcurrent protection?
3. If those are both "yes," how far is the disconnect from the point that the service conductors enter the building?

There is a SEB (service end box) inside of the building which is the service point. From there service conductors go to the existing service disconnect(s). He wants to "tap" in the SEB to a CT cabinet to a new service disconnect. The question is will the AHJ accept 20-25' of raceway from the CT cabinet to the service disconnect without encasement.