Need Adivce on Charity Job

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fredl

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I hope that some of you have suggestions for me on this situation.
I have been asked to help wire a new gym. The gym is for a church/school and they are a non-profit organization. My dilemma is the way things are being done. I assumed that the general contractor (who also has electricians on staff) would be providing electricians during the day to work and supervise anyone who wanted to lend a hand to help out with this project. What actually is going on is this: A verbal agreement was made with the general contractor that all of the electrical related work would be taken care of by volunteers under the electrical license of the general contractor. The general contractor would then deduct for the amount of work done from the contract price that has been agreed on. I guess the general contractor agreed to this on the word that two or three licensed electricians would be assisting with the project. The fact is there are no licensed electricians on the job during the day. Sometimes, people are doing electrical work with no electrical experience at all. All of the volunteer electricians have regular jobs therefore can not be there every day. I already know that there are a lot of things that have been done that I am not comfortable with. I have been asked to help with this project, and I am afraid of possible legal trouble, and at a minimum - being associated with a job that is not up to par. The suggestions that have been made by the electricians have not been followed. We made recommendations on lighting, and they boutht other lighting that will not be sufficient to light the gym up to standard. They did not listen at all. I know it will have to pass inspection, but I still do not feel comfortable with it. I am a licensed electrician in NC and I am in a no win situation because I do not want to get involved, but I am afraid there will be hard feelings if I don?t.

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. I am hoping for some insight soon because I will have to make a decision very soon. :-?
 
Charity begins at home.

crystal_cathinterior.jpg
 
I learned the hard way, many times over, to not get partly involved in charity work. Nowadays if I take on such a project, I do the whole thing including all labor and materials, free of charge. Otherwise I won't get inolved at all.

If someone else furnishes the materials it's often cheap crap that either does work right or slows us down. If I work with other volunteers it is either lousy work or hurt feelings or both.

So now I just suck it up, buy the materials, and pay my own crew to do the work. It does feel good at the end of the day though.
 
That rock or hard place looks better than the situation you're in. I guess I'd just show up and help out if I were you. It's really not your problem if others made bad choices. Try to fix any unsafe or glaring problems. Don't worry, your help will be appreciated.

I did a whole school intercom and P.A. system for free labor once. The other electrician was a no-show and I had to work with an engineer as my helper. He was slow as molasses because he was always trying to re-engineer another way to run the wiring. Well, we got it done. Then all I kept hearing through the grapevine was how expensive the job was. I supplied the equipment at cost and labor was free. Go figure.
 
I just found out our insurance does not cover us if we do any residential jobs..........

Best news I have heard in a real loooong time !!!!

"Sorry man but our insurance wont cover us if we work there"


SWEEETTT and I dont even have to lie )))

P.S. feel free to use that if ya like )
 
Never been in the same shoes you are in now, but I have fixed what other "volunteers" have done. My advice is, tell them at the church the truth. You can't jeopardise your license on any possible violations. Volunteer to paint or something else.

active1 said:
If you don't want to be involved and wanted to help you could say your schedule is full and offer a cash donation.
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Not a bad idea.
 
It certainly sounds like you may get yourself in to a precarious position. I would immediately go to whomever is managing this for the church /school and let them know your concerns. If it's the general contractors license, I would make it know to him - either through the "project manager" from the church/school or yourself of the shoddy work that is getting done under his license.

I like Active1's suggestion in the situation you present - giving a cash donation - and head for the hills. I don't mean to ignore the situation - and I indicated how I would handle that above. I would not want to have my name attached to something that is less than great work.

Please let us know how this goes.
 
I refuse to do any more church work for this exact scenario, and throw out these quotes when the hard feelings and guilt trips start.

It says in the bible (in several places) that the craftsmen have given enough and shall be paid.

2Kings 22:6

“…pay them out to the carpenters, builders, and lumbermen making repairs on the temple...”

2Chronicles 34:9

“...pay the workmen in the LORD'S house who were restoring and repairing the temple..."

Exodus 36:6
“...Let neither man nor woman make any more contributions for the sanctuary..."
 
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Wow.... great point
ITO said:
2Kings 22:6

??pay them out to the carpenters, builders, and lumbermen making repairs on the temple...?
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Referring to those who oversaw the construction, 2 Kings 22:7 goes on to say "But they need not account for the money entrusted to them, because they are acting faithfully."

Those were the days! :smile:
 
"No reckoning was asked of them regarding the funds consigned to them, because they held positions of trust.”

Bonus we get paid AND don't have to justified what we charge!
 
What is your relation to the project?

I do a lot of free work for Habitat and a couple other organizations, so I can feel your pain when someone approaches with a request.

Ask yourself this--Will I get in trouble and be held liable for a non-electrician's work? If the answer is yes, walk (or cash donation).

If NO, pitch in if you have time! Fix the screw ups and make it safe!


My favorite one years ago is when the church volunteers asked for some help on a remodel in the church. Almost all the wiring was completed and they wanted me to inspect their work prior to calling for a closing inspection. OK! No problem. ALL of the volunteer's wiring was in ROMEX!

I'm sure you can guess how unhappy they were!
 
ITO said:
I refuse to do any more church work for this exact scenario, and throw out these quotes when the hard feelings and guilt trips start.

It says in the bible (in several places) that the craftsmen have given enough and shall be paid.

2Kings 22:6

??pay them out to the carpenters, builders, and lumbermen making repairs on the temple...?

2Chronicles 34:9

?...pay the workmen in the LORD'S house who were restoring and repairing the temple..."

Exodus 36:6
?...Let neither man nor woman make any more contributions for the sanctuary..."
Click to expand...

Dude, you don't need take the bible out of context just to justify your disdain for charity work.

There is nothing wrong in the giving your labor to a non profit organization. I just believe that in this case, as described by the OP, the situation is out of hand and I wouldn't want to put the license of my livelihood on the line.
 
How fast would I run?

How fast would I run?

I don't know about your jurisdiction but where I'm from the line of responsibility is clearly defined. You pull the permit, you fix the mistakes. I have seen more 'sins' committed in the name of charity work than any other reason. Some of the most dangerous installations I've seen have been in private schools and churches. I go to church every Sunday, but I won't work there unless I pull a proper permit and take all the responsibility myself. You will have people making decisions they have no experience making. You couldn't get me involved at gunpoint.
 
Minuteman said:
Dude, you don't need take the bible out of context just to justify your disdain for charity work.
Click to expand...

You have misinterpreted my position, and context is a discussion better suited in other forums.
 
Big "G"

Big "G"

My Friends Working EE on his church now, I'll hear of that later.

My position is that I consider it Banking with God.
Once asked for charity, one always has their own response.

I layed out an addition once and walked away, thank goodness the church had enough craftsman of the church, which where the CG's.

Not many people, see, understand, appricate electrical work till it doesn't work, nor should it be a weekend hobby.( but its a cool vocation)

Sorry to read something like this. Seems like big "G" is making it tough on charity, but the bottom line its a Life Saftey Issue & Big's House!
 
Hey, first things first! Share with them.. Don 3:16 "remain calm" !! Let the helpers know that they are the helpers and that you are the "qualifed" electrician over seeing the project!! But do it in a nice way! Remind them that there is life safety issues to consider. And that there is a lot of details to remember in doing the work! Get a hold of the sitiuation FAST!!, do not get discouraged and GOOD LUCK!! ("remain calm")
 
ITO said:
You have misinterpreted my position, and context is a discussion better suited in other forums.
Click to expand...
If I miss read your position, than I apologize and I will leave the contextual aspects of your quotes for another place and time.
 
I your do electrical charity work you may want to clear it with your insurance person first. I have read others say some policies don't cover free work. For that reason some will always charge at least a small amount. I figure the insurance co. charges based on many factors including gross reciepts.
 
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