Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

[riverjig87]

First, inspectors, please note I understand both our jobs are essential in providing a quality product to the customer. This is the only negative issue I have ever had with an inspector. I would like to keep something like this from happenig to another contractor.


Concerning DSA Inspectors, where is there information availiable on the practices and guidelines by which DSA is required to follow?

Do these inpectors have, for lack of better phrase, "free reign", when it comes to aparticular jobsite?
Meaning, is his/her job policed by anyone? I find it hard at this day in age, that these inspectors have such total control over a project. At least control into one persons hands. It guarantees a snowball effect if actions by a contractor aggitate an inspector. This is not a game or time to take out revenge. In our case, an OBVIOUSLY INCOMPETENT inspector has cost us thousands of dollars we did not bid for. I AM NOT COMPLETELY SURE where it is located, but it can be summarized by " at any time an inspector may write up a violation, etc......"

How is it possible or feasible, for an inspector to be able to make up for his inadequacy by having the ability to pass an inpsection, just to write it up at a later date. It is the contractors responsibility to preform work as bid. It is the inpectors job to make sure it is followed. " The inspector shall be fully prepared and well informed
on the istallation which they are inspecting previous to the work being PERFORMED AND COMPLETED so that they may cite any violations immediately that the contractor may be able to correct them. More so when covered by concrete or encased.

I hope you see where Im going with this. Is there anything that can be done when the AHJ does this purposely, costing the contractor money, while decreasing the quality of work by being redone multiple times? If not, what is the purpose of the inspector even being there?

OUr inspector is delaying the job by now, purposely
citing that he didnt "see it at first, but its in the specs" . This is his reasoning for not citing us at the time of installation or inpection, but on the final pucnh list when it is obvious what extraordinary lenghts we would have to go thru in order to change it. None of the work performed is against the NEC. He is citing School District Specs .

I know theres a lot here. But I would like to know what could be done in this situation. This is outrageous that this is possible. Even the President of the United States answeres to someone for a mistake

[ January 14, 2006, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: riverjig87 ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

The ultimate person (or entity) responsible for completion of job specs is the contractor. If this was not picked up at some point, until the end of the job, then the contractor is still responsible for it.


As far as this inspector, did he let it go earlier, and is now mad, so he is putting the "screws" to you?

 

[augie47]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

What's a "DSA" inspector? I've been called a D-AS* inspector often, but not a DSA.
In our area the inspector's job is to assure the work meets applicable codes, not specs. That being said, if an item is "missed" on a R.I., it does not mean it is overlooked on a later inspection. Personally, unless its a fairly critical issue, if I missed it on R.I., I probably tend to miss it on Final. I agree with Pierre as far as specs are concerned, thats a contractor/owner issue. Secondly, I know of no inspection agency that has no supervision or review process. If you have a valid complaint, there should be an entity to address it.

 

[iwire]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

It is not the inspectors fault you did not follow the specs.

How does the customer feel about you short changing them?

In my area the inspector does not enforce the specs. regardless I have to follow them.

Some customers are willing to change the spec for the right amount of credit. You may want to look into that.

 

[infinity]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

I would question if this inspector has the authority to inspect based on the code or on the code and the provisions put forth in the spec. If his authority ends at code compliance than it should be someone else to point out deficiencies in meeting the requirements of the spec. However as Bob alluded to, why wouldn't the customer want to get what he's paying for, regardless of who pointed it out?

 

[ron]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

If the DSA (Division of the State Architect?) is enforcing contract specifications, not the town inspector that only enforces minimum code requirements, then he/she can ask you to comply with a contract requirement up to the day the final punchlist is submitted. Even if it means redoing work that is compliant with the minimums in the NEC.
For example, a client had me perform a final punch on a grounding project (ground loop with multiple ground rods with some in areas of concrete walkways) that was just about complete. I asked the contractor to show me the test wells shown on the Contract drawings, and how they were installed in the field. He said "what test wells"? He was sad to have to chop up the concrete where the test wells were supposed to be. The test wells were not required by the NEC in these instances, so the AHJ didn't note the problem, but I did

 

[roger]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Sounds like it may be a case of not reading ALL the contract documents close enough.

I want to know the specs, plans, contract, etc... like the back of my hand, if it's in there or not in there I will know it as well as those who wrote it.

Roger

 

[iwire]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Originally posted by roger:
I want to know the specs, plans, contract, etc... like the back of my hand, if it's in there or not in there I will know it as well as those who wrote it.

Roger

I just walked in the door from taking one of my daughters to ballet class.

How did I spend my time while waiting? (We cannot watch the class)

Why reading the specs for my next project, highlighter and note paper in hand.


The specs of course have to be followed but can also save you money if you assume the project requires something it does not.

 

[roger]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Bob, I can relate. I did the exact same thing (including highliter) on a 3 hour flight once.

Roger

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

River, just curious: is what the inspector is now finding wrong something that you should have known about when the right time to do it was? In other words, are you resenting being caught in a mistake you made earlier in the job?

For example, if an inspector misses required receptacle spacing during rough inspection, but catches it during final, shouldn't you have checked it yourself when doing the rough-in?

Withouit knowing the specifics of this issue, we can only contribute theoretical and speculative opinions. Philosophically speaking, I guess we can say he "should have" noticed it sooner.

But, who made the mistake itself, him or you? Inspectors are not obligated to let slide something just because they found it later than would have been convenient for you. Sorry.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

What's a DSA?

Check out this thread.

I guess it depends on your area, whether an inspector can fail for a non-code issue shown on prints.

 

[iwire]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Seriously without reading the specs for some jobs you end up doing your job blindfolded.

When a GC, owners rep, engineer, architect etc. asks you a question that starts "Why did you..?"

You want to be able to answer instead of looking like a deer in the headlights.

 

[ron]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Nice to hear that someone reads the specifications.
I spend days writing them for a large project, and sometimes it seems that sections that I bring up during meetings are the first time the EC has heard of it.

 

[iwire]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Originally posted by ron:
I spend days writing them for a large project, and sometimes it seems that sections that I bring up during meetings are the first time the EC has heard of it.

That is exactly what I want to avoid.

How am I going to keep up the illusion (and it is an illusion) of being the most knowledgeable guy at the table if I do not know the job requirements.

Just be careful what you do write down 'cause it will be used against you if the need arises.

At the end of this meeting the customer offered the company I represent more work.

[ January 14, 2006, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[ron]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Bob,
Sounds like your company deserved it. Surely if the particulars of a system are not specified, then whatever you can come up with with any slight similarities to the name of the system is fine. I can imagine if a lighting control system is referenced, but not specified, then standard wall switches could be construed as a lighting control system.
BTW, if the client is looking for a new engineer, let me know

[ January 14, 2006, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: ron ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

I surrender my name to

ELECTRICMANBOB

Super electrician and spec reader!


If you spent a little less time in front of your computer you would have more time to read job specs instead of having to do it with a bunch of suburban moms at ballet class. (No not that do it sheesh guys)

[ January 14, 2006, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
If you spent a little less time in front of your computer you would have more time to read job specs instead of having to do it with a bunch of suburban moms at ballet class.

Actually the job specs saved me from talking to the chatty Moms.

It was either go to ballet class or man a table at the supermarket selling Girl Scout cookies. :roll:

 

[Mike03a3]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Originally posted by ron:
Nice to hear that someone reads the specifications.
I spend days writing them for a large project, and sometimes it seems that sections that I bring up during meetings are the first time the EC has heard of it.

And people like me spend days reading them. My career has mostly been working on large projects, virtually all for the Federal Government, but sometimes for State or local gov't or commercial customers. I start every bid response the same way, with a set of highlighters and post-it pads. Things I don't understand get highlighted in yellow and the page marked with a yellow tab, things that effect the cost significantly get green, things that can't be done the way the requirements are written get red and things where I can offer a better and/or cheaper alternative get blue. I've never seen an RFP yet that didn't have plenty of each. I also look up every document or specification that is incorporated by reference so I'm positive I understand the full scope of each task.

Then I ask questions in writing to point out errors (very politely and constructively) and request clarification of any ambiguities or things I don't understand. Some of my colleagues may think I'm OCD, but at the end of the day I know exactly what I have to do and have cleared up any misunderstandings before they became problems. After that point, if I get caught out I just suck it up and admit I missed it. It happens.

Mike

 

[riverjig87]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

Lots of constructive ideas and subjects. I can say off the bat that I knew the "contractors short changing the owner" bit was going to come into play.
To clarify, DSA (Division of State Architect).

I posted this question, not so much as to hear the obvious. I spend countless hours over the period of a job, studying the specs and prints.

Yes, the contractor is solely responsible. He is there throughout the entire job we are performing, watches as we install it, approves the job, and at the end comes up with a list of B.S. at the end of the job.

Were not out there to short change anyone. Anyone who has been in business for 10 years or more knows
without customers, I wouldn't be writing this response. Our company has a very good reputation and are requested by name countless times just to submit bids to county and city projects. So, making a dollar here and there from something like cheating the customer material is for the birds.

If you read in the DSA guidelines, it is stated, in italics, " the inspector must study and fully comprehend the requirements of the construction documents in order to provide competent inspection of the work. It is necessary for the inspector to possess a thorough understanding of the requirements and specs BEFORE that portion of work is performed. The inspector must READILY identify non-compliant work as construction progresses in order to facilitate prompt corrective action. Even more so when covered by asphalt or concrete."

So, we, the contractor must be prepared and know our job before hand, which is only obvious. Were not allowed errors, but the inspector is? When he comes at the end of the project with a list that encompasses stages like UNDERGROUND, its OK that he was prepared and competent. I hope you see where I am with this. There's thousands of dollars on the line over this guys little kid games. Were going to win in court, that's already certain. What I am asking, is there no one that polices or oversees the actions of incompetent inspectors such as these? This isn't a game. And he thinks its one. I have to answer to someone when I make one mistake. Who does he have to answer to after COUNTLESS mistakes.


And before you respond, yes, it really has come to this immature of a level with this guy. I have instructed my employees to refrain from contact with him. I remain a professional at all times. This letter actually served as a way for me to vent as well as hopefully get as great f feedback as I already have.

Thanx everybody.

 

[ron]

Re: Need advice with inspector!!!!!Please

I know of no policing mechanism for the inspector other than if you complain during or after the project he may not get rehired for the next one (or they may think he was not liked because of his position). If there was "errors and omissions" on the inspectors part, that is for an insurance company and courts to decide.