have a question about connecting up "meter" pedestal? I want to feed the house and a garage. The pedestal has a 200A underground feed, I want to service the house and the garage from the pedestal, both are 100 amp panels. Do I need a special pedestal to make my connections or can I tie the two together on the lugs provided? The garage is 100 ft away, and will have a breaker in panel.
need alittle help
- Thread starter sharkvvv
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: need alittle help
The termination lugs within the meter enclosure must be listed for use for more than one conductor. If not, you will have to "double-lug" the equipment.
The termination lugs within the meter enclosure must be listed for use for more than one conductor. If not, you will have to "double-lug" the equipment.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: need alittle help
Your service disconnecting means must be grouped, so you can't have one service disconnect at the house and one at the barn 100 feet away.
One option would be to put 2 - 100A service disconnects to serve feeders to each locationas you have stated.
Your service disconnecting means must be grouped, so you can't have one service disconnect at the house and one at the barn 100 feet away.
One option would be to put 2 - 100A service disconnects to serve feeders to each locationas you have stated.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: need alittle help
you could do this with a meter /panel combo with main at 200 then use 2 -100 amp breakers.Leaves 4 more spaces for other uses such as well or pool equip.
you could do this with a meter /panel combo with main at 200 then use 2 -100 amp breakers.Leaves 4 more spaces for other uses such as well or pool equip.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: need alittle help
Brian
I think the intent is only if the service entrance wires were to enter the same building then they have to be grouped but since 230.66 does not include the meter as part of the service then we are still talking service entrance conductors.
230.40 exception #3 allows for A single-family dwelling unit and a separate structure to have one set of service-entrance conductors run to each from a single service drop or lateral. This means that the garage will have it's own service and a service disconnect. Which by the way would be required anyway if there is more than 6 breakers in the garage panel.
If your requirement was true then 230.40 EX#3 could not be done as then the wires would be feeders and not service entrance conductors.
Sharkvvv
There are a few ways to feed a garage from the house and the above is just one of them the other that most do is to install a two-pole breaker in the house panel then run to the garage panel but you have to have a disconnect at the garage if the garage panel will have more than 6 breaker handles, and all require a ground rod at the garage with the exception of a single circuit. The disconnect at the garage can be a main breaker on the panel if the panel is close to where the cable come into the garage. The circuit going to the garage also has to have an EGC ran with them unless there is no other metallic paths between the two buildings. A metallic path can be a water pipe, Gas line, TV cable, or telephone wire. so this must be taken into account when running it.
Brian
I don't think this is what the NEC say's
I think the intent is only if the service entrance wires were to enter the same building then they have to be grouped but since 230.66 does not include the meter as part of the service then we are still talking service entrance conductors.
230.40 exception #3 allows for A single-family dwelling unit and a separate structure to have one set of service-entrance conductors run to each from a single service drop or lateral. This means that the garage will have it's own service and a service disconnect. Which by the way would be required anyway if there is more than 6 breakers in the garage panel.
If your requirement was true then 230.40 EX#3 could not be done as then the wires would be feeders and not service entrance conductors.
Sharkvvv
Don't know who told you this? But it is not a requirement of the NEC.
There are a few ways to feed a garage from the house and the above is just one of them the other that most do is to install a two-pole breaker in the house panel then run to the garage panel but you have to have a disconnect at the garage if the garage panel will have more than 6 breaker handles, and all require a ground rod at the garage with the exception of a single circuit. The disconnect at the garage can be a main breaker on the panel if the panel is close to where the cable come into the garage. The circuit going to the garage also has to have an EGC ran with them unless there is no other metallic paths between the two buildings. A metallic path can be a water pipe, Gas line, TV cable, or telephone wire. so this must be taken into account when running it.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: need alittle help
Good call Wayne.
Good call Wayne.
Re: need alittle help
I found what I need. http://www.aps.com/aps_services/Construction/Construction_7.html Check it out. And does anyone know about the concrete pad? thickness? anyone.....
I found what I need. http://www.aps.com/aps_services/Construction/Construction_7.html Check it out. And does anyone know about the concrete pad? thickness? anyone.....
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: need alittle help
Check with the serving electric utility, they will tell you how thick and how large that pad must be if they even permit that type to be used. Is APS the serving electric utility? We do not permit that type to be used on our system, we require the type with a post. Remember, the cash register (meter) belongs to the electric utility and we get to tell you where and how the meter fitting is mounted and located.
Check with the serving electric utility, they will tell you how thick and how large that pad must be if they even permit that type to be used. Is APS the serving electric utility? We do not permit that type to be used on our system, we require the type with a post. Remember, the cash register (meter) belongs to the electric utility and we get to tell you where and how the meter fitting is mounted and located.
Re: need alittle help
I check with local electric utility co. and they said to just free stand the pedestal. Thats ok with me, makes my job easier.
hurk27--- what do you mean, The circuit going to the garage also has to have an EGC ran with them unless there is no other metallic paths between the two buildings? There will be a phone line Cat 5E ran in the ditch with the cable.. Is this okay? What does EGC mean?
I check with local electric utility co. and they said to just free stand the pedestal. Thats ok with me, makes my job easier.
hurk27--- what do you mean, The circuit going to the garage also has to have an EGC ran with them unless there is no other metallic paths between the two buildings? There will be a phone line Cat 5E ran in the ditch with the cable.. Is this okay? What does EGC mean?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: need alittle help
Anytime you run a feeder or service entrance conductors to a detached building you should run a equipment grounding conductor (EGC) with it. But the NEC allows a work around if you didn't run one if there is no other metallic paths between the two buildings. (250.32(B)(1) and (2)
If there is no EGC ran then you are required to bond all the grounding conductors to the grounded circuit conductor(neutral) at the separate building to provide a path for fault current to allow the breakers to operate. you must also install a grounding electrode at this other building this must also be bonded to the grounded circuit conductor(neutral)
If you run a EGC then you must keep the grounding conductors and grounded circuit conductors(neutral) separate. And you still have to install a grounding electrode, but it now must only be bonded to the grounding conductors and not to the grounded circuit conductor(neutral)
If you have any other metallic paths. not using a EGC (equipment grounding conductor) run with your feeders can result in unbalanced neutral current on these paths. and it don't take many amps to cause cat 5 to cause a fire. or cable for that matter. and it also poses a shock hazard as the voltage drop in the neutral will be on all metal that is bonded or connected to this panels grounding bar. if someone were to grab the door handle of a freezer in the garage while bare foot on a concrete floor and this freezer was to just start up, the startup current that could be as high as 50 amps would be on the neutral then take into the voltage drop and this person could receive a shock.
And also the fact that the NEC doesn't allow it as per 250.32(B)(1) and (2)
Keep in mind that since you will have separate circuit breakers at the pedestal you will still be required to have disconnects at each structure, but the main breaker in each panel will serve for this very nicely.
[ July 30, 2004, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Anytime you run a feeder or service entrance conductors to a detached building you should run a equipment grounding conductor (EGC) with it. But the NEC allows a work around if you didn't run one if there is no other metallic paths between the two buildings. (250.32(B)(1) and (2)
If there is no EGC ran then you are required to bond all the grounding conductors to the grounded circuit conductor(neutral) at the separate building to provide a path for fault current to allow the breakers to operate. you must also install a grounding electrode at this other building this must also be bonded to the grounded circuit conductor(neutral)
If you run a EGC then you must keep the grounding conductors and grounded circuit conductors(neutral) separate. And you still have to install a grounding electrode, but it now must only be bonded to the grounding conductors and not to the grounded circuit conductor(neutral)
If you have any other metallic paths. not using a EGC (equipment grounding conductor) run with your feeders can result in unbalanced neutral current on these paths. and it don't take many amps to cause cat 5 to cause a fire. or cable for that matter. and it also poses a shock hazard as the voltage drop in the neutral will be on all metal that is bonded or connected to this panels grounding bar. if someone were to grab the door handle of a freezer in the garage while bare foot on a concrete floor and this freezer was to just start up, the startup current that could be as high as 50 amps would be on the neutral then take into the voltage drop and this person could receive a shock.
And also the fact that the NEC doesn't allow it as per 250.32(B)(1) and (2)
Keep in mind that since you will have separate circuit breakers at the pedestal you will still be required to have disconnects at each structure, but the main breaker in each panel will serve for this very nicely.
[ July 30, 2004, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
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