Need an engineer

[nickelec]

I have a job where I need an engineer to come and Survey existing service to see if it is adequate to add an additional load I got a quote for about $4,500 in New York City does this seem average never used an engineer before

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[Ingenieur]

What type of building?
What size is the existing service?
are there good as built drawings? When was the bldg built?
utility records?
what will he deliver to you? Panel scheds and calcs?
is the load being added well defined?

with the rates in nyc that may be a little high imo but not extreme

 

[nickelec]

It's a 60 unit apt building I'm not sure of the existing service. As builts are good as garbage, building was built probably in early 1900s but the service my guess it's 30/40 yrs old. Im not sure of the size I haven't even looked. He will be previdiing me with a load calculation to see if the existing service is adequate enough for expansion

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[Ingenieur]

It's a 60 unit apt building I'm not sure of the existing service. As builts are good as garbage, building was built probably in early 1900s but the service my guess it's 30/40 yrs old. Im not sure of the size I haven't even looked. He will be previdiing me with a load calculation to see if the existing service is adequate enough for expansion

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how is it metered?
per unit
or the whole building

Taking into consideration your responses above seems reasonable
my guess nyc rates
jr eng 100-120
sr eng 140-160

fixed fee or billable not to exceed?
did they visit bldg or look at drawings

 

[nickelec]

Each individualy meterd ,are those per hour rates?

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[Ingenieur]

Each individualy meterd ,are those per hour rates?

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yes, per hour
at least my guess for nyc, 20% higher than my area

did he say how he would approach it?
meter the main service/feeder?
or a survey of the bldg loads?

 

[nickelec]

He didn't say , are you an engineer? How would you approach it

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[Ingenieur]

He didn't say , are you an engineer? How would you approach it

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yes
Meter it (gas boilers? What type of cooling?)
1 day or so after you have the data

survey a few typical apartments
survey the central plant (if applicable)
special equip: elevators, etc
take a day or two

then do a sq ft calc, quick and dirty, 1/2 day max

compare the 3 as a sanity check
compile the report 1/2 day

perhaps the util is metering the bldg feed
might have peak demand data

 

[nickelec]

Gas boiler yes, Colling is individual units . That's the reason why were having this conversation the tenant wants to put in mini split units and needs a new riser to there apartment.

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[Ingenieur]

Gas boiler yes, Colling is individual units . That's the reason why were having this conversation the tenant wants to put in mini split units and needs a new riser to there apartment.

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Gas central boiler? Steam or hw correct?

so removing an ac unit
replacing it with a mini-split heat pump?
for each of the 60 apartments?

 

[nickelec]

Gas central boiler? Steam or hw correct?

so removing an ac unit
replacing it with a mini-split heat pump?
for each of the 60 apartments?

No this is only for one apartment could you believe it .

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[nickelec]

There are no acs currently in the apartment. They had some.rimr ago but they kept tripping the main and just took them out now they want to upgrade and find a permanent solution. But the building is not making it easy

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[nickelec]

Gas central boiler? Steam or hw correct?

so removing an ac unit
replacing it with a mini-split heat pump?
for each of the 60 apartments?

And yes central boiler steam

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[Ingenieur]

So
to add a split unit to 1 apt the bldg owners are requiring a pe seal?
and he wants 4500 to do this?
way too much
that is a days work

amp the apt
turn everything on
compare to existing inplace capacity
add in new unit
upgrade if required
do a basic nec calc for the apt as a sanity check

you may be adding 10% to 1 apt out of 60
total bldg load increase 10% x 1/60 = 0.17 %

nonsense

 

[nickelec]

So
to add a split unit to 1 apt the bldg owners are requiring a pe seal?
and he wants 4500 to do this?
way too much
that is a days work

amp the apt
turn everything on
compare to existing inplace capacity
add in new unit
upgrade if required
do a basic nec calc for the apt as a sanity check

you may be adding 10% to 1 apt out of 60
total bldg load increase 10% x 1/60 = 0.17 %

nonsense

I agree with you but it's not easy dealing with the management companies

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[ron]

No engineer in NYC is leaving their office for less than that to take on that liability.

Do they have to interact with Con Ed? Will you provide the utility bills to determine the demand over the last year? Will you meter the service fore 30 days to determine the existing demand per 220? What is the deliverable if they do the work? Do they have to go to meetings? Lots of possibilities that it is more than 8 hours work, plus the cost of liability is high.

I've done work with folks for less, but it is usually in and among other projects we have with them.

 

[Cow]

I have a job where I need an engineer to come and Survey existing service to see if it is adequate to add an additional load I got a quote for about $4,500 in New York City does this seem average never used an engineer before

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We most likely would install a power logger for 30 days per 220.87 if we couldn't get power company demand data.

 

[NewtonLaw]

Lexiington Ave. Building?

Lexiington Ave. Building?

I agree with you but it's not easy dealing with the management companies

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If this is the building on Lexington Ave., I bid on this to do a load survey for two weeks to determine load split and capacity based on minimum input as to the exact details of the job. If this is the same job, in my opinion, the cost is reasonable. The liabilities, work requirements, permits , etc. in NYC can be overwhelming cost wise unless I am working under your insurance, etc.

Hope this helps,

Newton Law

 

[Ingenieur]

If this is the building on Lexington Ave., I bid on this to do a load survey for two weeks to determine load split and capacity based on minimum input as to the exact details of the job. If this is the same job, in my opinion, the cost is reasonable. The liabilities, work requirements, permits , etc. in NYC can be overwhelming cost wise unless I am working under your insurance, etc.

Hope this helps,

Newton Law

this job involves a 60 unit bldg
1 tenent wants to add a mini split unit
bldg increase about 1/2%
calculations aren't that accurate

this sounds like undue burden
the tendnt needs a lawyer and honest engineer looking to help him out

 

[lielec11]

this job involves a 60 unit bldg
1 tenent wants to add a mini split unit
bldg increase about 1/2%
calculations aren't that accurate

this sounds like undue burden
the tendnt needs a lawyer and honest engineer looking to help him out

I agree this seems way overblown for adding a single split system that may require an additional 4kW of load. I work with a very small M/P engineering firm in the NYC/NJ area as their electrical support quite frequently and they do jobs much larger for cheaper.

Not sure how much liability is involved in adding an AC unit to an apartment unit. Permitting is typically handled by the installing contractor, not the engineer. The most the engineer would have to do is fill out some TR-1 type forms but typically electrical work isn't filed in NYC. If you were adding load to the entire service the Advisory Board would become involved but this amount of work doens't meet their requirements.