Need help with old panel

[Mgarf33]

I've run in to quite a few older panels with connected neutrals and egc's on the same bus bars. These panels didn't have any isolation bushing for the neutral bars. Seems many older electricians didn't bother with the article 408, and mixed the neutrals and egcs on the same bar. My question is, what is the difference, if there is no isolation bushing on the neutral bar? Was this allowable back in the 80's?

 

[jumper]

Are you referring to panels that are the first point of disconnect of the service conductors or panels downstream of this point?

Big difference.

 

[Mgarf33]

yes, service entry, first point of disconnect.

 

[jumper]

yes, service entry, first point of disconnect.

Then it makes no difference that the EGCs and grounded/neutrals share a bus bar, that is where they are all tied together with the GEC and bonded to the enclosure.

Only downstream are they separated, 250.24 IIRC.

 

[Mgarf33]

ok, thank you that clears it up for me.
So, if there was a intermediate disconnect between the service entry and main panel, it would require separation?

Also, the doubling of neutrals is not allowed in first point of entry panels either correct?

 

[jumper]

ok, thank you that clears it up for me.
So, if there was a intermediate disconnect between the service entry and main panel, it would require separation?

Yes and other requirements.

Also, the doubling of neutrals is not allowed in first point of entry panels either correct?

Not allowed in either type of panel unless one meets the exception.

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations.
Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an
individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel
conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single ter-
minal if the terminal is identified for connection of more
than one conductor