Need small appliance circuits or not?

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crtemp

crtemp

Senior Member
Location
Wa state
I have always been under the impression that if a residence has a wet bar that it needs two small appliance branch circuits. I was looking in the code under required branch circuits and it says that every separate kitchen must be served by at least two 20 amp 120 volt circuits. Now, the definition of a kitchen is "an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking". Now as long as no cooking is going on do I not need to install the two circuits? My situation is in a bonus room, the homeowner is going to have a counter top with a sink and a mini fridge. Would this need the two separate circuits? I don't believe there will be anyway of cooking anything in this room unless he hauls a non fixed microwave up there and just sets it on the counter. Also on his back patio where he will be BBQing he is going to have an island installed but there will be no sink. Just a counter top. Would this require the two circuits? As for the bonus room I have already installed the two 20 amp circuits but I haven't wired the patio yet. I'm mostly interested in when a room or counter top is defined as a "kitchen". Does it have to have some sort of fixed cooking appliance to qualify?
 
It is not a kitchen so you do not need SABC.

However, depending on the counter appliances they will be plugging in the size of the wet bar sink you may want to add one or two circuits. You be the judge.
 
edward said:
It is not a kitchen so you do not need SABC.

However, depending on the counter appliances they will be plugging in the size of the wet bar sink you may want to add one or two circuits. You be the judge.
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Since he had the mini fridge and it was so close to the panel I went ahead and installed them. I could have swore I have been tagged for not having them in the past when there was only a sink on the counter top though.
 
Not so fast! :happyno:

Since your profile says you live in Washington (as do I), I think it likely that the project is also in Washington. That would bring into play the Washington Administrative Code's revisions to the NEC requirements. Specifically,
For the purposes of NEC 210.8(B), kitchen means any area where utensils, dishes, etc., are cleaned or where food or beverages are prepared or cooked.
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If you have a sink, then utensils will be washed. And try to tell me that beverages won't be prepared at a wet bar? Unless your project is in Oregon (quite possible, as it is only a few miles from your home city) then this is absolutely a kitchen, and the two SA circuits are required. :happyyes:

Here is a link to the applicable WAC rule:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=296-46B-210
 
charlie b said:
Not so fast! :happyno:

Since your profile says you live in Washington (as do I), I think it likely that the project is also in Washington. That would bring into play the Washington Administrative Code's revisions to the NEC requirements. Specifically, If you have a sink, then utensils will be washed. And try to tell me that beverages won't be prepared at a wet bar? Unless your project is in Oregon (quite possible, as it is only a few miles from your home city) then this is absolutely a kitchen, and the two SA circuits are required. :happyyes:

Here is a link to the applicable WAC rule:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=296-46B-210
Click to expand...

I guess I'll have to put 2 circuits to his outside island then. Lame!
 
charlie b said:
Not so fast! :happyno:

Since your profile says you live in Washington (as do I), I think it likely that the project is also in Washington. That would bring into play the Washington Administrative Code's revisions to the NEC requirements. Specifically, If you have a sink, then utensils will be washed. And try to tell me that beverages won't be prepared at a wet bar? Unless your project is in Oregon (quite possible, as it is only a few miles from your home city) then this is absolutely a kitchen, and the two SA circuits are required. :happyyes:

Here is a link to the applicable WAC rule:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=296-46B-210
Click to expand...

Charlie,
Not so fast either!
008(B) Other than dwelling units - GFCI requirements.
(3) GFCI requirements.
For the purposes of NEC 210.8(B), kitchen means any area where utensils, dishes, etc., are cleaned or where food or beverages are prepared or cooked.



This amendment limits the scope to GFCI as pertaining to Kitchens. No SABC necessary.

If the OP installed them are they AFCI, As this code modification only pertains to 210.8 (b),,,,, This section only applies to non dwelling units.
 
crtemp said:
I guess I'll have to put 2 circuits to his outside island then. Lame!
Click to expand...
There is no sink, so there won't be any washing of utinsels. I suspect the BBQ cooker rolls on wheels, so there is no way to claim that the vicinity of the island is where the cooking will take place. I don't think that area will be classified as a kitchen.

 
charlie b said:
There is no sink, so there won't be any washing of utinsels. I suspect the BBQ cooker rolls on wheels, so there is no way to claim that the vicinity of the island is where the cooking will take place. I don't think that area will be classified as a kitchen.
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Charlie the rule does not apply to residential nor does it apply to SABC
don't know what the problem is.
 
charlie b said:
There is no sink, so there won't be any washing of utinsels. I suspect the BBQ cooker rolls on wheels, so there is no way to claim that the vicinity of the island is where the cooking will take place. I don't think that area will be classified as a kitchen.
Click to expand...

It will be a fully built in island with stone work. Won't be able to move. His BBQ will just roll up right next to the island
 
OOPs
What I meant to say is. This ammendment only applies to non residential areas that have a sink and would be used to clean utensils.
This means only to place a GFCI in that area. Not that you need to add any Circuits. Also does not change the overall definition of a Kitchen in a dwelling.
 
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