Need some advice on a posible change order

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

IrishRugger

Senior Member
Back in the spring of 2006 we finished a new home for a client. It was roughly 4000 sq ft custom style home. In my original proposal included was a circuit for a spa with disconnect and wiring from the disconnect to the spa. During the rough in I ran 6-3 romex and mounted a CH Spa disconnect on the exterior of the home. At the finish of the job the concrete padio from the walk out was poured. The home owner had a spa that he wanted to use but had to install new pumps and other components and was also entertaining the thought of a new spa. So at the end of the job there was no spa used or new to hook up on sight. Two years later (this summer) the home owner got his used spa moved to a location on his patio. This location was all the way to the end of the patio approximately 20 feet away. He called me and asked me to wire his spa. I went to look at it he told me that he wanted to run the conduit under the landscaping I then hand dug in 18" deep under the landscaping (very neatly & carefully) laid in PVC from the disconnect to an LB then ran flex from the LB to the control panel pulled my conductors for the circuit. Then I very neatly filled my trench and very carefully laid the riverstone back on top being sure not to disturb any plants. Then terminated the conductors on the GFCI breaker in the disconnect. I left the terminations off on in the control panel and taped up because he had not yet installed the new pumps or other components. I left the breaker off and taped a note on the inside stating to leave off untill he installs the new pumps and components. I then sent him an Invoice for materials and labor for $339.49 to hook up the spa on the invoice I stated in detail what needed to be done and said I would return at no charge to terminate the control panel and energize the spa when he installs the new pumps and other components. I never got a call to energize the spa. Sixty days later he sends me a check for $150.00 with a note on the check that says he thought that the hook up of the spa was included with the price of the house. I feel this is obviously a misunderstanding and miscommunication on both of our parts. I can see his point, although I never expected the spa to be located as far away as it was at the time I made my house proposal. I cannot remember if we ever did discuss the location of the spa before, during or at the finish of construction. My instinct tells me to credit him the full $339.49 and give him his check for $150.00 back to him, but a little voice tells me that I am entitled to some compensation for the work I had to do. I have reviewed his file and cannot find any type of note of a conversation regarding the location of the spa. I keep notes on all changes and other stuff and keep them filed per project. The customer and I have allways had a good relationship I do not want to jeopardize it. Then again he has used my compeditor to do wiring in his office in the past (between his house being finished and this summer when I hooked up the tub). Sorry about the long post but what would you guys do to resolve this dilema. Also this customer is my Life Insurance agent.
 
I would guess this is one of those live and learn situations. When I finish a project I don't like to leave anything open. There is no real solution to this problem but next time if there is some part of the job that is left unfinished I would credit the homeowner some amount for the work and have them sign for the credit. Since you expected the spa to be close to the house a credit of $100-$150 dollars would probably have been OK with the home owner at the time of job completion. Then when he comes back almost three years later and wants a trench dug 20 feet and the spa hooked up a nice bill of about $600-$800 would be correct.

My advice is when you close out a job make sure it's closed out.

In reality I think he is taking advantage of you. But then again you let him by not getting a spa location. I would at least keep the $150 because you earned it and I would stick it to him big time on any future work.
 
My take is that,

(1) The hookup of the spa was in your original work scope, and you would have done it at the time if it had been ready for you to hook up, but

(2) You are ready and willing to hook up the spa, in its current location, at no additional cost, so

(3) That will fulfill your original contract, and

(4) The work you did recently was not in your original contract, so that

(5) He owes you the full value of your recent invoice.

I wouldn't worry about this causing a break in your respective professional relationships. You are his customer as well, and there are other insurance agents, even other insurance companies, to whom you can turn.
 
did you charge him for connecting a spa when you originally wired the home?

if so, i would agree with the customer. although i think he knows he's taking advantage of you a little.

the plans should have indicated where the spa would be, and that location is what you covered in your price, which should have been documented.
 
You got royally screwed IMO. BUT-you should have had a conversation before you did any work like, "The hookup of the spa is free within so many feet of this disconnect. If you want it over there, I'll work up a contract for you." Then it would have all been out in the open. IMO they would have had the other guy do it except they could burn you. They already have a new EC & you're not it. I also likely would have refused to hook up the used (probably not listed) spa. Used spas are a HUGE "CHEAP" FLAG!
 
The price of wire has doubled in three years. I would demand the entire amount. I would not go back to hook up to the motors until the full amount is paid.
Next time your insurance is due. Just send him half of what he thinks you owe. Tell him you expect to live longer now that your rid of cheapo customers.;)
It seems the electrician always gets screwed some how.
I have been on jobs. Where the owner says we we're the only one that they had a problem cordinating stuff with.
I explained well electricians have to touch almost every thing in the house. While other trades don't have as many fixtures, outlets, equipment, etc...
 
Tuff one! I think you are in a spot.
I agree with just about everyone that posted on this thread.
The problem is that you did not price him first! If you would of told him, how much prior to the hook up, he might of said something then, and you could of resolved it easily. So take what you can and leave it be...

Now on another note. $375 for digging 20' in landscape 18" deep and backfilling everything + pipe, wire, straps, connectors, flex, misc, and wait 60 days for $375..

Don't you think "now" that was cheap?

Finally don't forget you put your license at risk with out inspection on this spa. (bonding the concrete, you pulled 6-3 nmb most spa require a #6 ground, trench inspection, disconnect location)
 
Finally don't forget you put your license at risk with out inspection on this spa. (bonding the concrete, you pulled 6-3 nmb most spa require a #6 ground, trench inspection, disconnect location)[/QUOTE]

680.42(C) of the 2005 and 2008 NEC permit 6-3 romex from load center to disconnect in the interior of a one family dwelling.
 
Last edited:
UL listing on the equipment..... over rides the code.. sorry, failed and argued this one before and lost had to redo job 85' inside a finished basement good news I had a drop ceiling.
I wire over 70 spas and over 100 pools a year about 80% ask for a number 6 ground and have a few that ask for a QO GFCI which I hate to use cause it is very difficult to get the # 6 in the disconnect. I try to run 6-3 every chance I can get. Oh by the way sometimes there is a sticker on the enclosure that says it, on the motherboard, and check the wire diagram on the cover. Direction are general for a few models.
 
Sorry about the long post but what would you guys do to resolve this dilema.
Click to expand...

It's not the length, but the lack of paragraphs that makes it didfficult to read.
Put some spaces in there to break it up into digestable portions.

I'd tell him he was right. I reviewed my proposal and standard hook up was included (1.5 hours and x materials=$150).

The relocation was an extra x hours and x materials.

$339 - $150 is close enough.

Next time note on your contract that all equipment must be present on trim out or additional charges will apply.
 
220/221 said:
It's not the length, but the lack of paragraphs that makes it didfficult to read.
Put some spaces in there to break it up into digestable portions.
Click to expand...
Allow me:


Back in the spring of 2006 we finished a new home for a client. It was roughly 4000 sq ft custom style home.

In my original proposal included was a circuit for a spa with disconnect and wiring from the disconnect to the spa. During the rough in I ran 6-3 romex and mounted a CH Spa disconnect on the exterior of the home.

At the finish of the job the concrete padio from the walk out was poured. The home owner had a spa that he wanted to use but had to install new pumps and other components and was also entertaining the thought of a new spa.

So at the end of the job there was no spa used or new to hook up on sight. Two years later (this summer) the home owner got his used spa moved to a location on his patio. This location was all the way to the end of the patio approximately 20 feet away. He called me and asked me to wire his spa.

I went to look at it he told me that he wanted to run the conduit under the landscaping I then hand dug in 18" deep under the landscaping (very neatly & carefully) laid in PVC from the disconnect to an LB then ran flex from the LB to the control panel pulled my conductors for the circuit.

Then I very neatly filled my trench and very carefully laid the riverstone back on top being sure not to disturb any plants. Then terminated the conductors on the GFCI breaker in the disconnect.

I left the terminations off on in the control panel and taped up because he had not yet installed the new pumps or other components. I left the breaker off and taped a note on the inside stating to leave off untill he installs the new pumps and components.

I then sent him an Invoice for materials and labor for $339.49 to hook up the spa on the invoice I stated in detail what needed to be done and said I would return at no charge to terminate the control panel and energize the spa when he installs the new pumps and other components.

I never got a call to energize the spa. Sixty days later he sends me a check for $150.00 with a note on the check that says he thought that the hook up of the spa was included with the price of the house. I feel this is obviously a misunderstanding and miscommunication on both of our parts.

I can see his point, although I never expected the spa to be located as far away as it was at the time I made my house proposal. I cannot remember if we ever did discuss the location of the spa before, during or at the finish of construction.

My instinct tells me to credit him the full $339.49 and give him his check for $150.00 back to him, but a little voice tells me that I am entitled to some compensation for the work I had to do.

I have reviewed his file and cannot find any type of note of a conversation regarding the location of the spa. I keep notes on all changes and other stuff and keep them filed per project.

The customer and I have allways had a good relationship I do not want to jeopardize it. Then again he has used my compeditor to do wiring in his office in the past (between his house being finished and this summer when I hooked up the tub).

Sorry about the long post but what would you guys do to resolve this dilema. Also this customer is my Life Insurance agent.


How's that, Mr. Rugby Player? :smile:
 
I actually did read the whole post that time


I dont why I am so confused on using Romex with a Spa - I will re read those articles that were posted

A little off topic but I dont get most of the Hot Tubs I bid - I suspect a lot of guys do them with no permit and use romex
 
growler said:
I would guess this is one of those live and learn situations. When I finish a project I don't like to leave anything open. There is no real solution to this problem but next time if there is some part of the job that is left unfinished I would credit the homeowner some amount for the work and have them sign for the credit. Since you expected the spa to be close to the house a credit of $100-$150 dollars would probably have been OK with the home owner at the time of job completion. Then when he comes back almost three years later and wants a trench dug 20 feet and the spa hooked up a nice bill of about $600-$800 would be correct.

My advice is when you close out a job make sure it's closed out.

In reality I think he is taking advantage of you. But then again you let him by not getting a spa location. I would at least keep the $150 because you earned it and I would stick it to him big time on any future work.
Click to expand...
Well said. I agree with Growler on this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top