Need TVSS help!

[LAYMAN JOE]

I need a TVSS to protect my 200A residential service.
My service is properly grounded but only a few new branch circuits have GEC's. The main panel feeds a 100A sub panel (the old main panel). 90 % of my branch circuits come out of the sub panel and those cuircuits do not have gec.

Where can I find a TVSS for a GE Power Mark Gold load center? I have searched the web to no avail.

In the past month my PC has burnt up and just yesterday my brand new dehumidifier burnt up.

 

[catchtwentytwo]

In the past month my PC has burnt up and just yesterday my brand new dehumidifier burnt up.

I'm curious how you determined a TVSS is the answer. There are a lot of other things that could cause this like a loose service neutral or a common neutral on a 3-wire Edison circuit.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

John,

Apparently I am getting sags and spikes from the utility. My pc burnt up and yesterday my lights were flickering becoming very dim and then exceedingly bright. Yesterday my two day old dehumidifier burned up. breaker didnt trip, the unit just burned up.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Based on this and your other recent post, I think you have a severe neutral/ bonding issue.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

Based on this and your other recent post, I think you have a severe neutral/ bonding issue.

please be more specific. Im going nuts trying to figure this out and im worried for my family.

 

[George Stolz]

Edit: I have reopened the thread, and apologize again for the delay.

Joe is a layman, but not about electricity.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

As I posted in your other thread, I would start at the service and start working with the circuits in your house.
You have mentioned how you are concerned for your family, now you will have to make an effort in replacing some of the circuits and checking to see where you may have a loose or incidental neutral connection.
BTW: You are not missing GECs (grounding electrode conductors), you may be missing EGC (equipment ground conductors) - which will affect your "effective ground fault current path"

 

[czechmate]

As I posted in your other thread, I would start at the service and start working with the circuits in your house.
You have mentioned how you are concerned for your family, now you will have to make an effort in replacing some of the circuits and checking to see where you may have a loose or incidental neutral connection.
BTW: You are not missing GECs (grounding electrode conductors), you may be missing EGC (equipment ground conductors) - which will affect your "effective ground fault current path"

One could not determine the power quality without the proper tools so how were you able to determine spikes or sags in your home ?

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

One could not determine the power quality without the proper tools so how were you able to determine spikes or sags in your home ?

Deductive reasoning.
I have a dedicated lighting circuit and the lights have dimmed for a good 30 sec and then get extremely bright for 30 sec. This happened for a couple of minutes. dim to bright and so on. I have a dedicated circuit that was feeding a dehumidifier and she burned up. I found it burned up moments after the light craziness. I check all connections to find them tight and no signs of overheating. Also my dishwasher (different circuit) was on and that clicked on and off while the lights were going crazy.

I have checked both panels, ALL connections are good. No loose neutral...

 

[dereckbc]

Deductive reasoning.
I have a dedicated lighting circuit and the lights have dimmed for a good 30 sec and then get extremely bright for 30 sec. This happened for a couple of minutes. dim to bright and so on. I have a dedicated circuit that was feeding a dehumidifier and she burned up. I found it burned up moments after the light craziness. I check all connections to find them tight and no signs of overheating. Also my dishwasher (different circuit) was on and that clicked on and off while the lights were going crazy.

I have checked both panels, ALL connections are good. No loose neutral...

You are looking for a loose neutral in the wrong place. It is between your transformer and meter.

A TVSS will be of no help what soever. What you are describing is a loose service neutral

 

[George Stolz]

Dereck, will a loose/defective neutral show the correct voltage with the main in the "closed" position? I talked with Joe on the phone, and he suspected the same thing, but the voltage readings were on the money, regardless of what was on.

Can a bad utility neutral be intermittent?

 

[stickboy1375]

Dereck, will a loose/defective neutral show the correct voltage with the main in the "closed" position? I talked with Joe on the phone, and he suspected the same thing, but the voltage readings were on the money, regardless of what was on.

Can a bad utility neutral be intermittent?

Sure it can, if its a bad splice and the wind is blowing, seen it before... Why dosent Joe call the POCO before his house catches on fire and stop with all the guessing what could be wrong? At least this way he can at least eliminate one thing on the list that could possible be the problem...?

 

[dereckbc]

Dereck, will a loose/defective neutral show the correct voltage with the main in the "closed" position? I talked with Joe on the phone, and he suspected the same thing, but the voltage readings were on the money, regardless of what was on.

Can a bad utility neutral be intermittent?

Absolutely, the only way to nail it is to monitor when the symproms are present to isolate the direction. But none the less a TVSS is useless, as they do nothing for under and over voltages.

 

[George Stolz]

Well, if that's the case, it sounds like the prudent first step.

 

[dereckbc]

If it were me, try when it is windy.

 

[George Stolz]

Parting thought, as I wander off to bed: That would be an outwardly funny troubleshooting question to ask a customer: "Was the wind blowing when the lights dimmed?"

 

[catchtwentytwo]

Deductive reasoning.
I have a dedicated lighting circuit and the lights have dimmed for a good 30 sec and then get extremely bright for 30 sec. This happened for a couple of minutes. dim to bright and so on. I have a dedicated circuit that was feeding a dehumidifier and she burned up. I found it burned up moments after the light craziness. I check all connections to find them tight and no signs of overheating. Also my dishwasher (different circuit) was on and that clicked on and off while the lights were going crazy.

I have checked both panels, ALL connections are good. No loose neutral...

Joe:

Let's not presume a "high-tech" cause (transients, surges, etc.). Most power quality issues are usually physical problems such as connections or mis-wiring.

1. Is this a single occupancy building or multi-tenant?
2. Are any other customers or neighbors on the same utility line/transformer? if yes, are they seeing problems too?
3. How many times has it happened?
4. Do the events seem to occur regularly (around the same time) or are they totally random?
5. Is the problem confined to one branch circuit?
6. Were there lightning storms in the area during the events?
7. When did the problem first start? Was anything changed in the building recently (including HVAC work or remodeling)?
8. Has the utility company done any work around the time the problem started?

The more homework you do (document your steps and investigation) before implying the problem is the utility's the better as they'll ask similar questions.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Sure it can, if its a bad splice and the wind is blowing, seen it before... Why dosent Joe call the POCO before his house catches on fire and stop with all the guessing what could be wrong? At least this way he can at least eliminate one thing on the list that could possible be the problem...?

Absolutely. If this is an overhead service, check the neutral connection to the POCO drop at the weatherhead. Since this service was just recently upgraded, it's possible this connection is bad.

If the POCO in your area typically changes the entire triplex when a service is upgraded, then the problem could be at the weatherhead or the pole.

 

[wirenut1980]

Absolutely. If this is an overhead service, check the neutral connection to the POCO drop at the weatherhead. Since this service was just recently upgraded, it's possible this connection is bad.

If the POCO in your area typically changes the entire triplex when a service is upgraded, then the problem could be at the weatherhead or the pole.

Or in the meter box.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Of course, but he can't check that since it's probably sealed. I was also wondering if there's a metermain, and if that's been checked as well. Also, are there ground rods @ the service?