neon transformers

[tonyou812]

What does it mean when a neon transformer says ground fault on the secondary? does that mean there is a short downstream or there is something wrong with the secondry on the trans?
A customer called me the other day and asked me if I could look at his neon lights on his dinner. so when I got there I noticed the indicator light on the trasformer was blinking which meant that there was a ground fault on the secondary. So I pushed the reset button and it came back on. It worked for about a day and a half then went out again. The owner uses the breakers to turn the lights on and off. And the transformer looks almost brand new to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I dont have a lot of experiance with neon stuff.

 

[cadpoint]

I don't know much about them either but a nice article from IAEI
is Here

It gets technical and rolls through several things that happen with this device or luminaries.

I beleive as stated your problem is in the first half! The second half of article gets real heavy in things we usually don't deal with, but your answer is in the second half... (JMO) hope it helps

I found this using Google Images...

 

[cadpoint]

Neon Lighting, A Professional Advantage
also put out by IAEI based on 2005 NEC
$ 55 328 pages

 

[tonyou812]

WOW I didnt realize I posted such a dog.

 

[celtic]

WOW I didnt realize I posted such a dog.

Typically, neon is the sign guys work...most ECs do nothing more than supply them with the voltage.

 

[Fulthrotl]

What does it mean when a neon transformer says ground fault on the secondary? does that mean there is a short downstream or there is something wrong with the secondry on the trans?
A customer called me the other day and asked me if I could look at his neon lights on his dinner. so when I got there I noticed the indicator light on the trasformer was blinking which meant that there was a ground fault on the secondary. So I pushed the reset button and it came back on. It worked for about a day and a half then went out again. The owner uses the breakers to turn the lights on and off. And the transformer looks almost brand new to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I dont have a lot of experiance with neon stuff.

if memory serves, secondary is something like 15kv open circuit at 60
milliamps.... if you disconnect the secondary side, boot the leads, and
turn it on, that should tell you if the transformer is bad or not...

you can go thru each piece of HV cable between the glass, and see
if any of them megger to building ground, but if you have a problem
with either the glass, or the cable between it, you're gonna probably
need a sign guy to sort that out.... you aren't ready to take up the
art of glass blowing, and pumping down the glass and backfilling at
this time, are you? :wink:

all of my neon stuff experience is limited to solid state ballasts in
custom furniture i've built at one time or another... sorry i couldn't
be more help.

randy

 

[GUNNING]

How much to replace those letters (plus 10%)?

How much to replace those letters (plus 10%)?

Neon is a specialty. You have done your part with the transformer and looking for obvious ground faults. Tell the customer to call a sign guy, or ask if he wants you to call one. Either way its generally fixed by signage companies. Dead transformer is an easy fix, Ground fault when it involves the letters is a specialty. Even the parts are something you buy in bulk and not something you need hanging around if you are moving on to another project.
A note of caution. I saw the same sign burn up twice on a building. It was an inexperienced sign installer and damaged the building. He had used wire nuts to tie in the GTO cord and not SOLDERED the connections. (Did I say soldered? Is that allowed in the NEC?) In any case the wire nuts are only rated to 600 volts.
If there is moisture or inappropriate connections on or in the letters, or the gto cord is damaged its a neon signage problem. You could offer to change out the transformer if you feel as though the gfci is bad. I would disconnect the secondary and let it run for a couple of days then recheck to see if it was the gfci (that's what you did) then give the bad news to the responsible party . Or just say you only change out transformers and not troubleshoot. "Do you want me to do that?" (pregnant pause) At that point it will be up to the owner to redefine your scope of work.
Next ask if they want you to call in your sign guy, make sure you have one available, have him fix it then tack on your service fees, I think they call that contracting. If they decline; they will know where they have to go next.
Good luck.

 

[jrannis]

I dont know about the solder comment. Ive been in the sign business a while and I havent ever seen GTO wire soldered.
Is the sign custom or is it like a pre made bar sign?

 

[220/221]

Gaaaah....neon.


I did a BUNCH of neon sign repair when we started up. We'd drive around at night and then go door to door after it rained. 40% of the signs had issues.

It is very high voltage (10k) and the PK connectors were always cracked, burned and shorted. The main culprits were at the first connections off the transformer. The neon letters would often break when removed...it was not worth it.

The installations were always horrible (sign guys) and the conditions weren't any better (attic/soffits)

Ive been in the sign business a while

The installations were always horrible (sign guys)Doh....sorry

 

[tonyou812]

Thanks guys.