Neutral and ground in same panelboard

[sparkync]

I have a "Main panel" with a sub panel directly beside it. I'm having to move a "240 volt" dryer circuit out of the "Main panel" into the sub panel in order to make room for a "generator main breaker" at the top of the panel near the 200 amp "Main breaker" for the "inter-lock" kit. By code does the neutral and equipment ground wire, have to be moved also? The Main panel is very "congested" with wires, making it hard to "access" the neutral and ground wire. I know the circuit will work of course, bur what does the Code say about it. Thanks

 

[infinity]

You need to move all of the circuit conductors to the sub-panel.

300.3(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit.
All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4)

 

[roger]

Is the circuit being routed through a nipple, in and out of the two panels? If so I can see it the same a switch, feed in, switch legs out.

 

[sparkync]

Yes, a short nipple, less than 2" long.
Thanks

 

[infinity]

Is the circuit being routed through a nipple, in and out of the two panels? If so I can see it the same a switch, feed in, switch legs out.

I always thought of it like a switch loop too but I know of no code section that allows it for branch circuit wiring.

 

[electrofelon]

If the nipple is a 250.118 EGC, can he leave the wire EGC in the main?

 

[infinity]

If the nipple is a 250.118 EGC, can he leave the wire EGC in the main?

Maybe but the neutral has to be brought over to the neutral bar in the panel where the branch circuit originates.

 

[jap]

same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4)

What above category does the Panel or Loadcenter itself fall under?

What if this was a pipe and wire job and the Largest EGC was used to service more than one branch circuits in the conduit?

If you have to keep the EGC with them, to me, if you moved one you'd have to move them all.

I don't see having to do all that.

Jap>

 

[electrofelon]

Maybe but the neutral has to be brought over to the neutral bar in the panel where the branch circuit originates.

I agree definitely the neuter has to move

 

[wwhitney]

same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4)

Before the text you quoted above is the text "All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor". So the argument for not moving the grounded conductor from one panel's terminal bar to the other panel's terminal bar would be that the grounded conductor is not used in the subpanel, the circuit breaker only has terminals for the ungrounded conductors.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jap]

Before the text you quoted above is the text "All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor". So the argument for not moving the grounded conductor from one panel's terminal bar to the other panel's terminal bar would be that the grounded conductor is not used in the subpanel, the circuit breaker only has terminals for the ungrounded conductors.

Cheers, Wayne

Others are saying the Neutral would have to move.

My question was about the EGC causing more than just one circuit to move since in my example it served more than one circuit.

Jap>

 

[jap]

It would be far fetched to say that the Grounded Conductor was not being used on an active circuit.

Jap>

 

[wwhitney]

It would be far fetched to say that the Grounded Conductor was not being used on an active circuit.

It is commonly understood that a simple light switch does not use the grounded conductor, so prior to the requirement to allow for smart switches, the grounded conductor was often not routed to switch boxes. A normal circuit breaker similarly does not use the the grounded conductor.

I'm not necessarily endorsing this point of view, I just don't see it as clear cut at all, it's closer to a toss-up.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Little Bill]

Before the text you quoted above is the text "All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor". So the argument for not moving the grounded conductor from one panel's terminal bar to the other panel's terminal bar would be that the grounded conductor is not used in the subpanel, the circuit breaker only has terminals for the ungrounded conductors.

Cheers, Wayne

But the grounded conductor is used for a dryer. Doesn't matter if the breaker only uses the ungrounded conductors, the sub would have a neutral bar.

 

[jap]

It is commonly understood that a simple light switch does not use the grounded conductor, so prior to the requirement to allow for smart switches, the grounded conductor was often not routed to switch boxes. A normal circuit breaker similarly does not use the the grounded conductor.

I'm not necessarily endorsing this point of view, I just don't see it as clear cut at all, it's closer to a toss-up.

Cheers, Wayne

Circuit Breakers and Switches are devices.

The rule is in reference to circuits , not devices.

Jap>

 

[wwhitney]

But the grounded conductor is used for a dryer.

Sure, but a light uses a grounded conductor. Doesn't mean it has to be routed through a switch box (prior to 404.2(C)). That portion of the circuit doesn't use the grounded conductor.

However, there is also 210.4(A), which states "All conductors of a multiwire branch circuit shall originate from the same panelboard or similar distribution equipment." A dryer circuit is an MWBC, so for the OP, the grounded conductor must be moved to the subpanel.

Conversely, I infer that if the OP were about a 2-wire 120V circuit, there's a good argument that the grounded conductor could stay where it is.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jap]

Sure, but a light uses a grounded conductor. Doesn't mean it has to be routed through a switch box (prior to 404.2(C)). That portion of the circuit doesn't use the grounded conductor.

However, there is also 210.4(A), which states "All conductors of a multiwire branch circuit shall originate from the same panelboard or similar distribution equipment." A dryer circuit is an MWBC, so for the OP, the grounded conductor must be moved to the subpanel.

Conversely, I infer that if the OP were about a 2-wire 120V circuit, there's a good argument that the grounded conductor could stay where it is.

Cheers, Wayne

That "portion" of the circuit may not use the grounded conductor, but, that portion is still an associated part of the circuit.

Oh well,, I could see an argument for it not being used.

The rule for the EGC may not be so lenient.


Jap.