Neutral and Hot from different panels

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hardworkingstiff

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Wilmington, NC
Went behind someone and discovered they have used a hot from one panel and the neutral from a different panel to feed some indicator lights. The hots are to a submerged pump motor (diesel tank) and the neutral is from a control circuit that gets its power from a panel a few hundred feet from the panel that feeds the submerged pump. (The hot wire runs about 200-feet before it meets up with the neutral).

The indicator lights (2) are 10-watts each. The system is working fine. While this is a code violation 300.3(B), are there any other violations?

Is this something to make out to be an issue? Is it an issue?
 
hardworkingstiff said:
Went behind someone and discovered they have used a hot from one panel and the neutral from a different panel to feed some indicator lights. The hots are to a submerged pump motor (diesel tank) and the neutral is from a control circuit that gets its power from a panel a few hundred feet from the panel that feeds the submerged pump. (The hot wire runs about 200-feet before it meets up with the neutral).

The indicator lights (2) are 10-watts each. The system is working fine. While this is a code violation 300.3(B), are there any other violations?

Is this something to make out to be an issue? Is it an issue?
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There is a safety issue to someone working on the panel where the neutral originates. He can lock out the power source for the panel, check for voltage and find none, and then lift that neutral and get bit. The wire that you know is dead bites the hardest.
 
Years ago, (before 70E), I had a customer that needed a 1/2" conduit moved for a new doorway in a commerical building.

I took the panel cover off, and observed the 1/2 conduit leaving the panel had one black and one white. I figure this was going to be the easiest job of the week.

I shut off the single pole breaker with the black wire, and disconnected the black wire from the breaker. I insulated the black wire in preperation of pulling it out of the conduit.

I disconnected the white wire from the neutral bar, and while about to insulate the white wire..... WHAMO! I got a good jolt.

After my shorts dried out, I traced the white wire to a 4" sq not to far away where some clueless hack had used this neutral for a load connected to a different circuit.

NEVER assume the white can't hurt you. That was a lucky day for me.
 
I am almost certain there is an explicit NEC requirement to the effect that all conductors related to a single circuit must originate from the same panel. But I couldn't find it in the very few minutes I had available to look. Can someone else either find it or tell me it does not exist?
 
Charlie,
I think the best the code can do with this is to cite 300.3(B) unless it is a multiwire branch circuit.
 
300.3(B) violation for sure. Not clear if this is a multiwire circuit, if not, 210.4 doesn't apply. Would be a safety issue for me, as disconnecting the grounded conductor could result in a shock. I would rewire it correctly. IMHO
 
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I don't think we are talking about a MWBC. I infer that there is only one ungrounded conductor in this installation. So I would say that 210.4 is not a player.

I could make a case for this not being a violation of 300.3(B) either. The hot and neutral wire are, in fact, in the same raceway. They're just not together in that raceway for the entire length of the raceway. I don't see words in 300.3(B) to forbid that. There should be, I think, but the words are not there.

All I can offer is the first sentence of 110.8. The wiring method described in post #1 is not addressed in the code, so that is perhaps a reason to call it a violation.
 
PEI said:
"contained in the same raceway" I would interpret to mean for the entire length of the conductors.
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And I have no problem with that interpretation. This might have to go on the list of proposed revisions for the 2011 NEC.
 
Could be cleaned up a bit, with more precise wording, I think. I know I have seen some confusion on this in the past.
 
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