Neutral at Switch Red and White Travelers

[zcanyonboltz]

Just would like to have a discussion and get some thoughts/answers to grounded conductor at switch 2014 NEC requirement. 404.2 (C) also 200.7 (C) (1)
I'm looking at. 404.2 (C) at end of the paragraph referring to where a grounded conductor is required says "for other than the following" 404.2 (C) (4) Says "where a switch does not serve a habitable room or bathroom." Does this mean a grounded conductor is only required for bedrooms and bathrooms?
404.2 (C) (5) " where multiple switch locations control the same lighting load such that the entire floor area of the room or space is visible from the single or combined switch locations." I read this as a 3 or for way switched does not need a grounded conductor at all locations if all lighting outlets are visible from each switch location? Going back to 404.2 (C) a grounded conductor would not be required for say a stairway 3 way both up and downstairs or at the switch for a garbage disposal?

Thanks for any replies this is a topic with my crew at work right now, a Master was sent to work with our crew for the day, he dropped a 3 wire down to the switch in the garage where the light is powered at the light, I asked if he did this because the neutral is required at the switch he answered it is not required just good practice. I being a new hire JW and also holding an RW replied its nice to have a neutral at the switch if needed. Many apprentices I work with are being taught not to power and switch a 3 way from the same end because their wireman believes red and white travelers are illegal I point out 200.7 (C) (1) allows the white to be reidentified they then say well you need a neutral at all switch locations. I just would like to be 100% NEC compliant when talking and teaching. Thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just would like to have a discussion and get some thoughts/answers to grounded conductor at switch 2014 NEC requirement. 404.2 (C) also 200.7 (C) (1)
I'm looking at. 404.2 (C) at end of the paragraph referring to where a grounded conductor is required says "for other than the following" 404.2 (C) (4) Says "where a switch does not serve a habitable room or bathroom." Does this mean a grounded conductor is only required for bedrooms and bathrooms?

This is terribly written, IMO...It means that no grounded conductor is needed in switch that do not serve habitable room, ie Closets etc, and where the switch does not serve a bathroom.
So all habitable rooms and bathrooms need the neutral at the switch unless it meets the other exceptions.

404.2 (C) (5) " where multiple switch locations control the same lighting load such that the entire floor area of the room or space is visible from the single or combined switch locations." I read this as a 3 or for way switched does not need a grounded conductor at all locations if all lighting outlets are visible from each switch location?

Almost-- so only one of the 3 ways needs the grounded conductor but it must be visible from anywhere in the room

Going back to 404.2 (C) a grounded conductor would not be required for say a stairway 3 way both up and downstairs or at the switch for a garbage disposal?

I agree the disposal does not require one but I don't see where a stairway is exempt

 

[zcanyonboltz]

This is terribly written, IMO...It means that no grounded conductor is needed in switch that do not serve habitable room, ie Closets etc, and where the switch does not serve a bathroom.
So all habitable rooms and bathrooms need the neutral at the switch unless it meets the other exceptions.

Almost-- so only one of the 3 ways needs the grounded conductor but it must be visible from anywhere in the room


I agree the disposal does not require one but I don't see where a stairway is exempt

Thanks for the reply that simple answer reaffirmed what I was thinking and have been doing. In my original post I did mean that a grounded conductor is required at only one 3 way or 4 way switch location if all switches are visible from anywhere in the room.
1. Red and white travelers are legal but would only be used for say a switched receptacle or light(s) where all 3 way/4 way switches are visible from anywhere in the room.
2. Non habitable rooms and closets do not need a grounded conductor at switch, so from my example the garage does not need a grounded conductor.
I was thinking the stairway would be exempt because it is a non habitable room, but this is not the case because it violates the all switches are visible from anywhere in the room requirement. Thanks.