neutral bus bonding question (Moved from another thread)

[chuckgassmannm]

I apologize for not giving you all the information. I think it would fall under the category of a manufactured home.woud 550.32 b apply and the panel board is the service equipment?

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[kwired]

I apologize for not giving you all the information. I think it would fall under the category of a manufactured home.woud 550.32 b apply and the panel board is the service equipment?

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If it is a manufactured home and all the conditions in 550.32(B) are met then yes.

 

[chuckgassmannm]

Thanks again for your help. I appreciate it.

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[david]

T. Is it still necessary to bond the neutral buss to the panel? Thanks Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

550.16

The actual job l' m doing is on a trailer. The service conductors coming from the transformer are run under ground. They did run a separate ground with the grounded conductor( neutral) and ungrounded conductors. I checked for continuity at the service and there was good continuity. Is it still necessary to bond the neutral buss to the panel? Thanks Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

What size are the "grounded" conductors? are they both the same size? are they both 1/0 or larger?

I apologize for not giving you all the information. I think it would fall under the category of a manufactured home.woud 550.32 b apply and the panel board is the service equipment?

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

How much service entrance conductor is run under the manufactured home before you reach the service disconnect? How are you keeping the grounding electrode conductor routed outside?

 

[kwired]

550.16





What size are the "grounded" conductors? are they both the same size? are they both 1/0 or larger?





How much service entrance conductor is run under the manufactured home before you reach the service disconnect? How are you keeping the grounding electrode conductor routed outside?

You don't need to keep the GEC outside you need to route it outside the structure, which isn't hard to do at all because the electrode will be outside. Underneath is outside, setting the manufactured home on a basement or permanent foundation - that basement/foundation is outside the manufactured home.

 

[chuckgassmannm]

I'll have to get back to you with that information.

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[david]

You don't need to keep the GEC outside you need to route it outside the structure, which isn't hard to do at all because the electrode will be outside. Underneath is outside, setting the manufactured home on a basement or permanent foundation - that basement/foundation is outside the manufactured home.

In general there is no rule to route a grounding electrode conductor to the outside you could as addressed in the article run one through an attic space or under a building though the article says it would be common sence to route it outside it is required to be routed outside when the service equipment is inside of a manufactured building

230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or other structure under any of the following conditions:
(1) Where installed under not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete beneath a building or other structure
(2) Where installed within a building or other structure in a raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less than 50 mm (2 in.) thick

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2V5roVdNglZqi1-ShxpikA&bvm=bv.136499718,d.cWw

 

[kwired]

In general there is no rule to route a grounding electrode conductor to the outside you could as addressed in the article run one through an attic space or under a building though the article says it would be common sence to route it outside it is required to be routed outside when the service equipment is inside of a manufactured building

230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or other structure under any of the following conditions:
(1) Where installed under not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete beneath a building or other structure
(2) Where installed within a building or other structure in a raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less than 50 mm (2 in.) thick

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2V5roVdNglZqi1-ShxpikA&bvm=bv.136499718,d.cWw

My reply was based on what it says in 550.32(B)(3).

If the service equipment is allowed to be inside the structure and you must land a GEC in the service equipment, then the GEC obviously has to enter the structure as well. I think the intent there is simply to route it to the outside of the structure. Set the manufactured home on a permanent foundation or basement - and you are outside of the manufactured home. Obviously a ground rod will be outside, but I think if you had a water pipe that qualifies as an electrode they want you to connect to it outside the manufactured portion of the whole kitten caboodle and not where the water pipe enters the manufactured portion of the home.

 

[chuckgassmannm]

OK. Thanks again for your help

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[LittleSpark]

A perhaps off topic story

A perhaps off topic story

What is the purpose of bonding the neutral buss at the service panel to the panel? Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

After a typical 10 hour day, I'm putting up my feet and dosing in my favorite chair. A neighbor lady calls and says "Is there anything a plumber could do which would blow up my TV?" "I'll be right over", I respond. Sure enough, a (lucky-to-be-alive) plumber is replacing the iron water pipes with copper and has disconnected the bonding conductor from the piping for the moment. (The bond conductor and clamp are hanging above the new copper pipe.) The POCO triplex is not providing any ground/neutral path. The whole house is running on an un-grounded/no-neutral 220 volt circuit. After opening the MCB, I suggested that the plumbers take a break while the POCO fixes there triplex. Oh, and someone has stolen all the copper ground conductors from all the power poles for blocks around. There are no conductors to the rods at any poles as far as I can walk (about two miles) in the neighborhood. The copper all stops about nine feet above the ground. (My house has two ground rods, copper water pipe bond, and buried redundant ground conductors to the rods.)

 

[kwired]

After a typical 10 hour day, I'm putting up my feet and dosing in my favorite chair. A neighbor lady calls and says "Is there anything a plumber could do which would blow up my TV?" "I'll be right over", I respond. Sure enough, a (lucky-to-be-alive) plumber is replacing the iron water pipes with copper and has disconnected the bonding conductor from the piping for the moment. (The bond conductor and clamp are hanging above the new copper pipe.) The POCO triplex is not providing any ground/neutral path. The whole house is running on an un-grounded/no-neutral 220 volt circuit. After opening the MCB, I suggested that the plumbers take a break while the POCO fixes there triplex. Oh, and someone has stolen all the copper ground conductors from all the power poles for blocks around. There are no conductors to the rods at any poles as far as I can walk (about two miles) in the neighborhood. The copper all stops about nine feet above the ground. (My house has two ground rods, copper water pipe bond, and buried redundant ground conductors to the rods.)

If metal water pipe is continuous to where it is bonded at a neighbors house that may save you from the open neutral scenario, until the water pipe bond it somehow broken, but I doubt you have low enough resistance in your ground rods for them to take the place of a lost neutral. Even if the rod(s) had 10 ohms of resistance, which is low for a ground rod, that is too high of resistance for a neutral conductor, that would be about the same thing as wiring a 1440 watt 120 volt heating element in series with the neutral.

 

[romex jockey]

I'll often tap a GEC on an H20 main, and ask apprentices why i get an arc....

~RJ~