Neutral Earthing Questions

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Kaaud

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How does neutral earthing fix the (live) conductor voltage with respect to earth ,and how does it eleminate voltage surges/spikes from the circuit?

Is there a difference between earhing a neutral of 3 phase (4-wires) or a single phase circuit ,giving that neutral of balanced 3 phase loads has zero current?
 
How does neutral earthing fix the (live) conductor voltage with respect to earth
It just provides a stable reference as long as there is only a small amount of current flowing in the grounding electrode conductor.
and how does it eleminate voltage surges/spikes from the circuit?
It doesn't.
Is there a difference between earhing a neutral of 3 phase (4-wires) or a single phase circuit ,giving that neutral of balanced 3 phase loads has zero current?
No.
 
Kaaud said:
It doesnt eleminate voltage spikes but it protects against damage from them ,how is that??
Who said it protects against damage from spikes? It doesn't.

I once wrote up, and posted on this forum, a long explanation of how the earthing of the neutral causes the voltage of the phase conductors, with respect to the Earth, to become stabilized. If I find it, I will post a link to it. Otherwise, I will post it again.
 
The key to understanding the purpose and function of grounding is to understand what the term "limit the voltage imposed" means as stated in Section 250.4(A)(1) of the NEC.

It is often stated that the goal is to establish a "zero" reference to earth on all non-current carrying metal parts of a premise wiring system. This causes great confusion. Many assume this means that during a surging event, the grounded, grounding, and metal parts of the system will remain at zero thus preventing shock or fire.

What is actually happening as the ground potential rise occurs during the surge event, all parts grounded to the earth will rise and fall together. Thus, a person in contact with the ground and a grounded part will have no current flow through them as no potential is created between those objects.

Without this bonding and connection to earth, the ground potential rise on parts of the system can and will occur at different rates thus potentially creating a difference in potential. Even the smallest difference will allow current to flow through a conductive body.

So don't think of it as excessive voltage. Think of it as imposed voltage. The voltage on the premise wiring system and metal parts may be thousands of volts as would be tested from a remote point. But like a bird on the wire, everything bonded togther creates a single rise and fall of the surging voltage, thus no voltage reading would be present between those bonded parts.
 
charlie b said:
Who said it protects against damage from spikes? It doesn't.
Kaaud said:
This guy said
I think Bryan gave a good explanation in post 7 above.
Kaaud said:
and wikipedia
As a matter of principle, I do not read anything posted on that site. It has no authority behind it; anyone can say anything, and the reader cannot distinguish “informed opinion” from “useless statement” from “just plain wrong.”
 
bphgravity said:
The key to understanding the purpose and function of grounding is to understand what the term "limit the voltage imposed" means as stated in Section 250.4(A)(1) of the NEC.

It is often stated that the goal is to establish a "zero" reference to earth on all non-current carrying metal parts of a premise wiring system. This causes great confusion. Many assume this means that during a surging event, the grounded, grounding, and metal parts of the system will remain at zero thus preventing shock or fire.

What is actually happening as the ground potential rise occurs during the surge event, all parts grounded to the earth will rise and fall together. Thus, a person in contact with the ground and a grounded part will have no current flow through them as no potential is created between those objects.

Without this bonding and connection to earth, the ground potential rise on parts of the system can and will occur at different rates thus potentially creating a difference in potential. Even the smallest difference will allow current to flow through a conductive body.

So don't think of it as excessive voltage. Think of it as imposed voltage. The voltage on the premise wiring system and metal parts may be thousands of volts as would be tested from a remote point. But like a bird on the wire, everything bonded togther creates a single rise and fall of the surging voltage, thus no voltage reading would be present between those bonded parts.


That is a excellent explanation, and should be in a text book.
Ok....I know that it already is (in different form), but that is a really clear version.:)

steve
 
Bryan while I agree with your theory, in practice that is not always true during a fault condition. Take a simple fairly long 20-amp circuit located some distance away from the service and ground electrode. During a fault the L and G form a voltage divider circuit, and the case of the equipment can easily rise to about 60 VAC with respect to earth, and a shock hazard exist until the OCPD operates.

To the question ?How does neutral earthing fix the (live) conductor voltage with respect to earth, and how does it eliminate voltage surges/spikes from the circuit?
Was answered half correctly IMO. By referencing a system to earth you short out the majority of capacitance to earth of say a ungrounded delta system. This capacitance in parallel with the inductance of the conductors can cause a RINGING effect or self oscillation that can and does breakdown cable insulations over time from current flowing through the insulation. By referencing the system to earth you remove, or short out the capacitance and associated ?ringing effect?
 
Kaaud said:
This guy said
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=692740&postcount=14

and wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

it says that earth can work as surge suppressor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

this link also says the same thing about excessive voltage.

I read the Wiki article and the forum post but cannot find any reference to what you mention above. The Wiki article states:

"Functional earth connections may be required by devices such as surge suppression and electromagnetic-compatibility filters...."

Which is correct but it doesn't say anything about a neutral or ground acting as a surge suppressor. Furthermore, the forum post doesn't state anything about a neutral or ground protecting equipment from spikes. If I'm missing something in either of those two articles please let me know.
 
I read in the Merlin gerin medium Voltage protection guide that solidly earthed systems are best for evacuation of overvoltages while isolated systems are best for limiting earth fault currents ,so u have to choose an in between solution which is impedance earthed systems.

I am sure I read about neutral earthing supresses overvoltages or protects against them in tons of resources before , but I still dont know how earthing accomplishes this.

thx in advance.
 
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