Neutral in 4 gang switch box.

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PWalker

Member
Location
New Haven, CT
Hello everyone,

My name is Peter and I am brand new to posting on these forums.

So currently I am a 2nd year apprentice and while I am confident in my abilities something has me stumped.
I am updating the plugs and switches in my home.

In my 4 gang switch box I have 3× 14/3 and 2× 14/2.
The neutrals and bare ground are all wire nutted together with a pigtail landed to the metal switchbox.

I disconnected the pigtail because im certain you cant have the neutral together with ground in switchbox.
But by doing so it seems I lose return to panel. 4 switches in box hallway, stairway, plug and ceiling fan.

Am I wrong? The neutral cant be connected to ground in switch box correct?

Additional info on house 1950s, old fabric covered nmc wire.

Thanks.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
You are correct. Neutral can NOT be connected to the EGC (equipment grounding conductor)

If you lose your return when you remove the wire nut then it sounds like the EGC is being used as the return (neutral) conductor.

Find out which one of the cables is the home run then troubleshoot see where the main neutral disconnect is. I would check the panel first and see if the neutral of that particular circuit is properly connected.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
As for "losing the return", are you saying that by separating/disconnecting the neutrals/ground in the switchbox that the lights and ceiling fan no longer work? If so, I'd guess that the homerun from the panel either burnt up a wire, and the EGC is being used as a neutral, or someone needed another circuit, so they stole the neutral from the 14/2 homerun, made it a hot (ungrounded conductor), and used the ground for both neutral and ground.
 
P

PWalker

Member
Location
New Haven, CT
Thanks I knew it was wrong so yes im going to have to figure out how its run plus terminations.
Im surprised inspector didnt say anything when house was inspected prior to purchase.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Turn off all lights and unplug all cords on that circuit.

The feed to that box is most likely one of the 14/2. Mark all your wires, then unland them. Find the hot of the 14/2, then trace up the jacket to its accompanying neutral and ground. You should have 120V hot to neutral, 120V hot to ground, and continuity from neutral to ground. If the circuit is open between neutral and ground, then there is a break in the circuit between the switchbox and the panel (is it a main or sub-panel?).

My mistake earlier; if the grounds and neutrals are all tied together, then it's not possible that someone stole the neutral to have an additional hot; that would create a dead short.

eta: since you've found neutrals and grounds tied together in this box, you may need to open up any and all boxes upstream of this one to check for the same miswiring.
 
P

PWalker

Member
Location
New Haven, CT
JFletcher said:
Turn off all lights and unplug all cords on that circuit.

The feed to that box is most likely one of the 14/2. Mark all your wires, then unland them. Find the hot of the 14/2, then trace up the jacket to its accompanying neutral and ground. You should have 120V hot to neutral, 120V hot to ground, and continuity from neutral to ground. If the circuit is open between neutral and ground, then there is a break in the circuit between the switchbox and the panel (is it a main or sub-panel?).

My mistake earlier; if the grounds and neutrals are all tied together, then it's not possible that someone stole the neutral to have an additional hot; that would create a dead short.

eta: since you've found neutrals and grounds tied together in this box, you may need to open up any and all boxes upstream of this one to check for the same miswiring.
Click to expand...

I will check for these things and the panel is main.
Thanks again to everyone for the help.
Im about to head into class but ill return later today.
 
Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Sounds like you might have newer NM with ground connected to old NM without a ground. The installer may have just tied all together as he did not know what to do with the ground wire.
If the case you have a ungrounded system.
 
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