Neutral on ground bar

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mbrooke

mbrooke

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This came up in an electrician's forum and I am curious what you guys think about it. What code section forbids someone from landing neutrals on the ground bar to the left?


47db9e68-2840-4ef7-a8b0-447f7149567a_1000.jpg
 
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ActionDave said:
200.2 (B)
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(B) Continuity. The continuity of a grounded conductor
shall not depend on a connection to a metallic enclosure,
raceway, or cable armor.
Informational Note: See 300.13(B) for the continuity of
grounded conductors used in multiwire branch circuits.
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I disagree, there is a metal strap which eliminates the sole reliance on using the can as a conductor.
 
mbrooke said:
I disagree, there is a metal strap which eliminates the sole reliance on using the can as a conductor.
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You must be thinking of something other that what your illustration photo shows. Your photo shows a subpanel.

A current carrying neutral (grounded conductor) landed on the left hand terminal strip (equipment grounding conductor) will have the neutral current travel in any and all normally noncurrent carrying conductive paths that get back to the Main Bonding Jumper, Grounding Electrode(s), etc. NEC 200.2(B) speaks directly to that.
 
al hildenbrand said:
You must be thinking of something other that what your illustration photo shows. Your photo shows a subpanel.
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Most load centers sold today can be configured for either as can be this one.

A current carrying neutral (grounded conductor) landed on the left hand terminal strip (equipment grounding conductor) will have the neutral current travel in any and all normally noncurrent carrying conductive paths that get back to the Main Bonding Jumper, Grounding Electrode(s), etc. NEC 200.2(B) speaks directly to that.
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200.2 (B) only asks that the enclosure not be the only conductive path.
 
IMO, as it is you can not use the left bar for Neutral connection. However, one you connect the strap to the isolated neutral bar it will not be any different than a service panel then you can use the left or the right bar for neutral. Once the strap is used it can not be used as a sub panel.
 
mbrooke said:
This came up in an electrician's forum and I am curious what you guys think about it. What code section forbids someone from landing neutrals on the ground bar to the left?


47db9e68-2840-4ef7-a8b0-447f7149567a_1000.jpg
Click to expand...

Short answer....Nothing keeps them from landing a neutrals on the ground bar to the left.

If this was a sub panel where a grounded and EGC was pulled to it and landed properly and all the branch circuit neutrals were landed on it and not the actual insulated neutral bar that would be a violation and the return current would energize all of the non-current carrying paths of whatever it was feeding if EGC were pulled and landed.

If it were the service entrance panel and was the 1st means of disconnect and the Neutral was landed on the ground bar and bonded properly I don't see where you'd need the insulated neutral bar for its intended use at all and could completely get rid of it.

If it were a subpanel and the Feeder Neutral to this subpanel was landed on the ground bar that would be a violation of not separating the 2.

If it were a subpanel and the Feeder Neutral was landed properly and someone landed the branch neutrals on the ground bar, that would be a 2 fold violaion of not separating the grounded and EGC's and also using the panel tub as a return path if they also violated the rule and accidently installed the bonding jumper.

If it were a service entrance panel and they landed the branch neutrals on the ground bar but left the insulated neutral bar in place and installed the boding screw through the insulated neutral bar into the panel enclosure that would also be a violation if the jumper strap was left out of using the metal box and the bonding screw as a neutral return path to the neutral conductor.

JAP>
 
At least without giving this a second thought or proof reading the hurried response that is. :)


JAP>
 
mbrooke said:
This came up in an electrician's forum and I am curious what you guys think about it. What code section forbids someone from landing neutrals on the ground bar to the left?
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Convention.

Also, see the panelboard literature [110.3(B)]. The grounding bar to the left in Code speak is the equipment ground bus terminal. That strap is the factory-supplied main bonding jumper. It gets inserted into the [isolated] grounded [neutral] conductor bus terminal when used as a service disconnecting means enclosure.

Code cannot spell out every little detail. Professionals are supposed to be in the know. That's what gives us jobs rather than being done by DIY'ers.
 
Smart $ said:
Convention.

Also, see the panelboard literature [110.3(B)]. The grounding bar to the left in Code speak is the equipment ground bus terminal. That strap is the factory-supplied main bonding jumper. It gets inserted into the [isolated] grounded [neutral] conductor bus terminal when used as a service disconnecting means enclosure.

Code cannot spell out every little detail. Professionals are supposed to be in the know. That's what gives us jobs rather than being done by DIY'ers.
Click to expand...



Code can not also restrict what is not inherently dangerous. We may not agree with it, but what is the danger here?
 
jap said:
Short answer....Nothing keeps them from landing a neutrals on the ground bar to the left.

If this was a sub panel where a grounded and EGC was pulled to it and landed properly and all the branch circuit neutrals were landed on it and not the actual insulated neutral bar that would be a violation and the return current would energize all of the non-current carrying paths of whatever it was feeding if EGC were pulled and landed.

If it were the service entrance panel and was the 1st means of disconnect and the Neutral was landed on the ground bar and bonded properly I don't see where you'd need the insulated neutral bar for its intended use at all and could completely get rid of it.

If it were a subpanel and the Feeder Neutral to this subpanel was landed on the ground bar that would be a violation of not separating the 2.

If it were a subpanel and the Feeder Neutral was landed properly and someone landed the branch neutrals on the ground bar, that would be a 2 fold violaion of not separating the grounded and EGC's and also using the panel tub as a return path if they also violated the rule and accidently installed the bonding jumper.

If it were a service entrance panel and they landed the branch neutrals on the ground bar but left the insulated neutral bar in place and installed the boding screw through the insulated neutral bar into the panel enclosure that would also be a violation if the jumper strap was left out of using the metal box and the bonding screw as a neutral return path to the neutral conductor.

JAP>
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Exactly and my thinking.
 
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