New 120v gas range recepticle

[Gregiz]

Can a new gas range recepticle in a kitchen be fed from an existing lighting 15a circuit?

 

[Smart $]

Can a new gas range recepticle in a kitchen be fed from an existing lighting 15a circuit?

Generally speaking, all dwelling 120V kitchen receptacles must be supplied by a small appliance branch circuit. If this is a new receptacle, the current-Code-compliant answer to your question is no.

 

[Smart $]

Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

 

[augie47]

Yes, welcome.
You may get more than one opinion which is probably why you posted the question
In reading 210.52, I think by literal interpretation as Smart$ noted, the answer would be "no".
That said, I doubt many inspectors would have a problem with it.
Since the outlet can be on the counter top circuit, I doubt the need to feed it from a lighting circuit arises often.

 

[John120/240]

Yes, welcome.
You may get more than one opinion which is probably why you posted the question
In reading 210.52, I think by literal interpretation as Smart$ noted, the answer would be "no".
That said, I doubt many inspectors would have a problem with it.
Since the outlet can be on the counter top circuit, I doubt the need to feed it from a lighting circuit arises often.

Exactly augie47. If range is located directly underneath the microwave, just fish power down

from the microwave. Done many just like this.

 

[texie]

Can a new gas range recepticle in a kitchen be fed from an existing lighting 15a circuit?

I disagree with the others. A receptacle can optionally be connected to a SABS per 210.52(B)(2) Exception #2, it is not required to be as it is not a countertop receptacle. The lighting circuit is compliant IMHO.

 

[infinity]

210.52(B)(1) references 210.52(A)&(C). I see nothing in 210.52(A) stating that the space behind the range is considered wall space or (C) stating that it's considered countertop space.

210.52(A)(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed such that no
point measured horizontally along the floor line of any wall
space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall
include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
space measured around corners) and unbroken along
the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fire-
places, and fixed cabinets
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls,
excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as
freestanding bar-type counters or railings
(3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall
not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle
outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.
(4) Countertop Receptacles. Receptacles installed for coun-
tertop surfaces as specified in 210.52(C) shall not be consid-
ered as the receptacles required by 210.52(A).
(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all counter-
top outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.

 

[Smart $]

210.52(B)(1) references 210.52(A)&(C). I see nothing in 210.52(A) stating that the space behind the range is considered wall space or (C) stating that it's considered countertop space.

210.52(A)(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed such that nopoint measured horizontally along the floor line of any wall
space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall
include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
space measured around corners) and unbroken along
the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fire-
places, and fixed cabinets
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls,
excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as
freestanding bar-type counters or railings
(3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall
not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle
outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.
(4) Countertop Receptacles. Receptacles installed for coun-
tertop surfaces as specified in 210.52(C) shall not be consid-
ered as the receptacles required by 210.52(A).
(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all counter-
top outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.

IMO, the space behind a free-standing range is wall space. If it were built-in, I would agree with you.

Granted, the requirement for all wall receptacles on sabc's is for small appliances... so speculation ensues

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Can a new gas range receptacle in a kitchen be fed from an existing lighting 15a circuit?

I have never installed a gas range receptacle from the SABC.

 

[infinity]

IMO, the space behind a free-standing range is wall space.

IMO that's a stretch.

If it were wall space then the area dedicated for an electric range would also require a 120 volt SABC fed receptacle.

 

[Smart $]

IMO that's a stretch.

If it were wall space then the area dedicated for an electric range would also require a 120 volt SABC fed receptacle.

How is it NOT wall space???

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall
include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
space measured around corners) and unbroken along
the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces,
and fixed cabinets
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls,
excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as
freestanding bar-type counters or railings

I agree a free-standing electric range installed between cabinet sections presents a conundrum

 

[infinity]

I agree a free-standing electric range installed between cabinet sections presents a conundrum

So would the area behind the dishwasher.

 

[Smart $]

So would the area behind the dishwasher.

Isn't a dishwasher typically considered built-in (to the cabinetry)?

 

[infinity]

In post #11 you posted the NEC definition of wall space to imply that it applies to the area behind the range. I'm merely saying the definition you posted it would then also apply to the area behind the dishwasher. I'm of the opinion that it applies to neither.

I think that it's safe to say that no one has ever been required to install a SABC fed 120 volt receptacle next to the 40 or 50 amp electric range receptacle in the space dedicated for the range which leads me to conclude that the NEC does not consider that to be wall space.

 

[texie]

IMO that's a stretch.

If it were wall space then the area dedicated for an electric range would also require a 120 volt SABC fed receptacle.

I'm with you on this. It is definitely not wall space in my eye, hence my opinion that it is OK on the lighting circuit. By the logic (as you ponited out) that it is wall space then if you had an electric range, then you would have to also have a SA recep. next to it in the space- don't think I have ever seen that done.

 

[Smart $]

In post #11 you posted the NEC definition of wall space to imply that it applies to the area behind the range. I'm merely saying the definition you posted it would then also apply to the area behind the dishwasher. I'm of the opinion that it applies to neither.

I think that it's safe to say that no one has ever been required to install a SABC fed 120 volt receptacle next to the 40 or 50 amp electric range receptacle in the space dedicated for the range which leads me to conclude that the NEC does not consider that to be wall space.

What if the range is completely freestanding with no cabinetry on either side, would you count the wall behind it as wall space?

I'm not saying it must always be counted as wall space. If the range 'compliments' the cabinetry, I wouldn't count it as wall space either. For example, my range is at the end of my counter-top cabinets, with an overhead exhaust hood, and the wall cabinets extend over the exhaust hood. I do not consider the wall behind the range as counting towards wall space.

What I am saying is the Code does not specifically exclude the area behind a range as wall space.

****

Getting back to the OP question, exactly what circuit can this gas range receptacle be connected to... compliantly?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What I am saying is the Code does not specifically exclude the area behind a range as wall space.

Look at 210.52(C)(1) exception

 

[Smart $]

Look at 210.52(C)(1) exception

Okay :roll: , but...

...as I said, if it compliments the cabinetry. The exception you cite is for wall countertop spaces... not for wall spaces under 210.52(A).

However, now that you bring up exceptions, what about Exception No. 2 under 210.52(B).

Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power
for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired
ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.

Since it is regarding 210.52(B)(2), i.e. no other outlet, referencing 210.52(B)(1) [see above], that seems to say it can(?) or has to be(?) on an sabc...????

 

[infinity]

Maybe we need an NEC definition of wall space.

I once had an inspector say that a square Sheetrock enclosure around a lally column in a basement remodel was wall space if each side was greater than 6" (+6" * 4 = +24"). :roll:

 

[Smart $]

Maybe we need an NEC definition of wall space.

The NEC specifies wall space criteria in 210.52(A)(2). Are you saying it is incomplete??? :huh:

I once had an inspector say that a square Sheetrock enclosure around a lally column in a basement remodel was wall space if each side was greater than 6" (+6" * 4 = +24"). :roll:

And you disagree???