new 2010 regs

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cschmid

Senior Member
Please read the following and tell me your opinion. As I read this this means no one can do any type of electrical work without being a licensed contractor that is either a class A master or employees one.

Did I read that right..So does giving advice count as electrical work..


Minnesota Electrical Act
Minnesota Statutes Chapter 326B, sections 326B.31 to 326B.399

326B.31 DEFINITIONS.

Subd. 17. Electrical work. “Electrical work” means the installing, altering, repairing, planning, or laying out of electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment for electrical light, heat, power, technology circuits or systems, or other purposes. The installing, altering, repairing, planning, or laying out of electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment for electrical light, heat, power, technology circuits or systems, or other purposes includes, but is not limited to, the performance of any work regulated by the standards referred to in section 326B.35.

326B.33 LICENSES.

Subd. 14. Contractor’s license required. Except as otherwise provided by law, no individual other than an employee, partner, or officer of a licensed contractor, as defined by section 326B.31, subdivision 14, shall perform or offer to perform electrical work with or without compensation unless the individual obtains a contractor’s license. A contractor’s license does not of itself qualify its holder to perform or supervise the electrical work authorized by holding any class of personal license.


326B.31 DEFINITIONS.

Subd. 14. Contractor. “Contractor” means a person who performs or offers to perform any electrical work, with or without compensation, who is licensed as a contractor by the commissioner. A contractor’s license does not of itself qualify its holder to perform or supervise the electrical work authorized by holding any class of electrician’s or other personal license. Contractor includes electrical contractors and technology system contractors.


326B.35 SAFETY STANDARDS.
All electrical wiring, apparatus and equipment for electrical light, heat and power, technology circuits or systems shall comply with the rules of the department and the board and be installed in conformity with accepted standards of construction for safety to life and property. For the purposes of this chapter, the rules and safety standards stated at the time the work is done in the then most current edition of the National Electrical Code as adopted by the National Fire Protection Association, Inc. and approved by the American National Standards Institute, and the National Electrical Safety Code as published by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. and approved by the American National Standards Institute, shall be prima
facie evidence of accepted standards of construction for safety to life and property; provided further, that in the event a Minnesota Building Code is formulated pursuant to section 326B.106, containing approved methods of electrical construction for safety to life and property, compliance with said methods of electrical construction of said Minnesota Building Code shall also constitute compliance with this section, and provided further, that nothing herein contained shall prohibit any political subdivision from making and enforcing more stringent requirements than set forth herein and such requirements shall be complied with by all licensed electricians
working within the jurisdiction of such political subdivisions.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
planning, or laying out of electrical wiring,

I would say if you followed the intent then giving advice could be construed as planning and or laying out. On a side note I would/am very careful as to who and how much advice I will give. CYA
 

cschmid

Senior Member


I would say if you followed the intent then giving advice could be construed as planning and or laying out. On a side note I would/am very careful as to who and how much advice I will give. CYA

I try and be very careful as well since I am not a licensed contractor. So what constitutes electrical work..

I am just curious how do other states law read on this subject..
 

G0049

Senior Member
Location
Ludington, MI
Except as otherwise provided by law, no individual other than an employee, partner, or officer of a licensed contractor, as defined by section 326B.31, subdivision 14, shall perform or offer to perform electrical work

You have to find out what is otherwise provided by law. There may very well be a homeowners exemption somewhere in the law.
 

slick 50

Senior Member
The way I read it is....You cannot do any work unless you are affiliated or under a person or company who holds a license. Sorta like the owner of the company has a license and all us employees do his work without license.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
You have to find out what is otherwise provided by law. There may very well be a homeowners exemption somewhere in the law.

I would agree. Other wise even a person who works under an electricain couldn't work on his own home unless his boss contracted the work.:roll: Or something like that.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
I try and be very careful as well since I am not a licensed contractor. So what constitutes electrical work..

I am just curious how do other states law read on this subject..


Electrical contracting shall be defined as engaging or offering to engage in the business of installing, maintaining, altering or repairing any electric work, wiring, devices, appliances or equipment. No person, partnership, firm or corporation shall engage, or offer to engage, in the business of electrical contracting within the State of North Carolina without having received a license in the applicable classification described in G.S. 87-43.3 from the State Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors

This is what NC has to say
 

cschmid

Senior Member
You have to find out what is otherwise provided by law. There may very well be a homeowners exemption somewhere in the law.
the allows homeowners to do their own work on the property they live in. now if you run a business out of your home it becomes a clouded issue. yet the portion used for the bussiness needs a licensed contractor


This is what NC has to say

I see that planning for and laying out is not covered there, is it covered some where else in the state regs'.
 

cschmid

Senior Member
I would agree. Other wise even a person who works under an electricain couldn't work on his own home unless his boss contracted the work.:roll: Or something like that.

How does your state read? I heard that CA does not even use the code they write there own and they are on the 2002 is that correct? how does it work there and how does the reg read?
 

cschmid

Senior Member
You have to find out what is otherwise provided by law. There may very well be a homeowners exemption somewhere in the law.

The way I read it is....You cannot do any work unless you are affiliated or under a person or company who holds a license. Sorta like the owner of the company has a license and all us employees do his work without license.

lets read what your states say?


ok for the record I am exploring and am curious how we in MN rank against other states. If I did the work researching all the regs myself it would not be as interesting as reading what you all think as well. and maybe we can have a good conversation while examining the differences from state to state.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
How does your state read? I heard that CA does not even use the code they write there own and they are on the 2002 is that correct? how does it work there and how does the reg read?

No and No. We simply ammend the NEC and we're on the 2005. Most of the ammendments don't even apply to me. They are mostly for the state guys, the ones that do hospitals, schools, elevators and what not.

Here a homeowner or building owner can pull a permit for anything. AC contractors can install any related electrical for their equipment. GC's can pull electrical permits if they are doing two other trades on the job. Sign contractors can do electrical for signs, solar contractors, pool and spa maintenance contractors, manufactured housing contractors, can all do electrical work, related to their trade.

The only electrician that can pull a permit is an EC. We don't have journeymen and masters here, in the union maybe, but it doesn't really mean anything.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
No and No. We simply ammend the NEC and we're on the 2005. Most of the ammendments don't even apply to me. They are mostly for the state guys, the ones that do hospitals, schools, elevators and what not.

Here a homeowner or building owner can pull a permit for anything. AC contractors can install any related electrical for their equipment. GC's can pull electrical permits if they are doing two other trades on the job. Sign contractors can do electrical for signs, solar contractors, pool and spa maintenance contractors, manufactured housing contractors, can all do electrical work, related to their trade.

The only electrician that can pull a permit is an EC. We don't have journeymen and masters here, in the union maybe, but it doesn't really mean anything.

Union levels are Journeyman Inside Wireman, Apprentice and (as of late) Pre-Apprentice.

JIW does NOT equate to state licensing. Union JIW's travel all over the country so it's tough to be licensed everywhere they go.

There is no Master level in IBEW rankings.

Michigan requires that other than the HO, a state licensed EC is the only entity that can contract and perform electrical work. The EC is required to have one state licensed Master in it's employ. The site must have at least one state licensed Journeyman on the job. No helpers are allowed. All involved, if not licensed, must be state registered apprentices. There is a ratio of Journeymen to apprentices. I think it's 1 with 2 on commercial / industrial and 1 with 4 on residential.

As strict as the rules are here, much unlicensed work goes on. The state has been laying off inspectors. The lion's share of the inspectors here are contract inspectors that get paid by the job and they cover several municipalities.
 

e57

Senior Member
How does your state read? I heard that CA does not even use the code they write there own and they are on the 2002 is that correct? how does it work there and how does the reg read?

Licensing:
C-10 contractors - a license to do contract over $500... Requires testing by the Contractors State License Board - to the current CEC - which is the adopted NEC cycle with amendments to a hand-full of codes. The adopted cycle is usually one NEC cycle behind. ('05 NEC with admendments) - They also test primarily on state contracting law - and this comprises most of the testing.


Certification: (Yes this is different)
Certification of training as a Journeyman, and allows you to work for a C-10 legally although there is rather little enforcement. But if you know about the law in the first place - Journeyman of a few classifications require testing by a sub-contracted testing agency hired by the Department of Apprenticeship Services - to the NEC without amendment and to a code cycle 2-3 cycles back (2002 NEC which they changed to after being on the 99 completely through the cycle in which it would have been relevant, and they did so within weeks of the State adopting the '05, putting them out of sync again...) - because they are clueless fools with little contact with the trade in the field or contact with the other state agencies like the BSA that have offices in the same building that determine our state building standards. The basis of this law was to require mandatory apprenticeship - but more importantly who could provide that training, and your access to them if doing prevailing wage work - which a sister law requires dispatch of of apprentices and certified Journeyman on PW work - the one place where there is any enforcement of the law, and it is vigorous....

That said - cities and towns can write additional amendments to the CEC which is state wide for use in construction - to exclude certain wiring methods or require additional wiring methods or practices. e.g. FA wiring (to include Art. 725) in SF, CA requires metallic raceways, where elsewhere in the state does not...
 

cschmid

Senior Member
No and No. We simply ammend the NEC and we're on the 2005. Most of the ammendments don't even apply to me. They are mostly for the state guys, the ones that do hospitals, schools, elevators and what not.

Here a homeowner or building owner can pull a permit for anything. AC contractors can install any related electrical for their equipment. GC's can pull electrical permits if they are doing two other trades on the job. Sign contractors can do electrical for signs, solar contractors, pool and spa maintenance contractors, manufactured housing contractors, can all do electrical work, related to their trade.

The only electrician that can pull a permit is an EC. We don't have journeymen and masters here, in the union maybe, but it doesn't really mean anything.


Oh my now what are required of contractors? to get licenses, what type business climate is there, ect?
 

cschmid

Senior Member
Union levels are Journeyman Inside Wireman, Apprentice and (as of late) Pre-Apprentice.

JIW does NOT equate to state licensing. Union JIW's travel all over the country so it's tough to be licensed everywhere they go.

There is no Master level in IBEW rankings.

Michigan requires that other than the HO, a state licensed EC is the only entity that can contract and perform electrical work. The EC is required to have one state licensed Master in it's employ. The site must have at least one state licensed Journeyman on the job. No helpers are allowed. All involved, if not licensed, must be state registered apprentices. There is a ratio of Journeymen to apprentices. I think it's 1 with 2 on commercial / industrial and 1 with 4 on residential.

As strict as the rules are here, much unlicensed work goes on. The state has been laying off inspectors. The lion's share of the inspectors here are contract inspectors that get paid by the job and they cover several municipalities.

That is how the inspectors here get paid..interesting how things seem to be different but really are more similar..
 

cschmid

Senior Member
Licensing:
C-10 contractors - a license to do contract over $500... Requires testing by the Contractors State License Board - to the current CEC - which is the adopted NEC cycle with amendments to a hand-full of codes. The adopted cycle is usually one NEC cycle behind. ('05 NEC with admendments) - They also test primarily on state contracting law - and this comprises most of the testing.


Certification: (Yes this is different)
Certification of training as a Journeyman, and allows you to work for a C-10 legally although there is rather little enforcement. But if you know about the law in the first place - Journeyman of a few classifications require testing by a sub-contracted testing agency hired by the Department of Apprenticeship Services - to the NEC without amendment and to a code cycle 2-3 cycles back (2002 NEC which they changed to after being on the 99 completely through the cycle in which it would have been relevant, and they did so within weeks of the State adopting the '05, putting them out of sync again...) - because they are clueless fools with little contact with the trade in the field or contact with the other state agencies like the BSA that have offices in the same building that determine our state building standards. The basis of this law was to require mandatory apprenticeship - but more importantly who could provide that training, and your access to them if doing prevailing wage work - which a sister law requires dispatch of of apprentices and certified Journeyman on PW work - the one place where there is any enforcement of the law, and it is vigorous....

That said - cities and towns can write additional amendments to the CEC which is state wide for use in construction - to exclude certain wiring methods or require additional wiring methods or practices. e.g. FA wiring (to include Art. 725) in SF, CA requires metallic raceways, where elsewhere in the state does not...

So It is kind of like a free for all in the regulation area..
 

cschmid

Senior Member
sorry was really tired last night. so in CA you are a couple of code cycles behind other states. so mechanical contractors pull permits do their own wiring, sign contractors pull permits and do their own wiring, pool contractors are the same as well. how many apprentices are you allowed on the job site per licensed person? It also sounds the same with Prevailing wage jobs as it is here. contractors are held to a higher standard or should I say a more rigid standard. I would say a fair amount (since I could only guess) of prevailing wage jobs here would involve legal action to finalize the contract due to overages and non specific changes, like you meet what the contract said but the architect had envisioned it differently and wants it changed to his vision; who pays for it but it will be done in order to get paid. so things sound similar in the construction trade in CA.

How about other state what you guys got going there?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
From Nebraska State Electrical Act:

81-2106 Plan, lay out, or supervise certain activities; license required; exceptions.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Except as provided in section 81-2108, 81-2110, or 81-2112, no person shall, for another, plan, lay out, or supervise the installation of wiring, apparatus, or equipment for electrical light, heat, power, and other purposes unless he or she is licensed by the board as a Class B electrical contractor, an electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, or a Class B master electrician.
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Source
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 7; Laws 1978, LB 833, ? 4; R.S.Supp.,1980, ? 81-577; Laws 1993, LB 193, ? 6; Laws 2003, LB 126, ? 5. [/FONT][/FONT]


81-2108 Wiring or installing; license required; exceptions; lending license prohibited.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section or in section 81-2110 or 81-2112, no person shall, for another, wire for or install electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment unless he or she is licensed by the board as a Class B electrical contractor, an electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, a Class B master electrician, or a fire alarm installer.
(2) Except as provided in section 81-2106, 81-2110, or 81-2112, no person shall wire for or install electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment or supervise an apprentice electrician unless such person is licensed as a Class B journeyman electrician, a journeyman electrician, a residential journeyman electrician, or a fire alarm installer and is employed by a Class B electrical contractor, an electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, a Class B master electrician, or a fire alarm installer.
For purposes of this section, the holder of a fire alarm installer license shall only supervise those apprentices engaged in the installation of fire alarm equipment and apparatus operating at fifty volts or less.
(3) No person licensed under the State Electrical Act may lend his or her license to any person or knowingly permit the use of such license by another.
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Source
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 9; Laws 1978, LB 833, ? 6; R.S.Supp.,1980, ? 81-579; Laws 1982, LB 605, ? 1; Laws 1993, LB 193, ? 8; Laws 2003, LB 126, ? 7; Laws 2004, LB 914, ? 2. [/FONT][/FONT]


81-2110 Installer; license; rights and privileges.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Any person holding an installer license may lay out and install electrical wiring, apparatus, and equipment for major electrical home appliances on the load side of the main service in any municipality having a population of less than one hundred thousand inhabitants.

Source
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 11; R.S.1943, (1976), ? 81-581; Laws 1993, LB 193, ? 10. [/FONT][/FONT]

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81-2112 Special electrician license; licensee; rights and privileges; qualifications.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The board shall by rule or regulation provide for the issuance of special electrician licenses empowering the licensee to engage in a limited class or classes of electrical work, which class or classes shall be specified on the license. Each licensee shall have experience, acceptable to the board, in each such limited class of work for which he is licensed.

Source
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 13; R.S.1943, (1976), ? 81-583. [/FONT][/FONT]

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pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Please read the following and tell me your opinion. As I read this this means no one can do any type of electrical work without being a licensed contractor that is either a class A master or employees one.

Did I read that right..So does giving advice count as electrical work..

You've misread.

First off, giving advice is not listed as electrical work but using that advice is electrical work.

Second, this is a trade restraint act. In simple terms it states: You cannot perform electrical work in MN without A) paying a tax or B) working for someone who has paid the tax. The tax gets you a piece of paper saying you are a licensed contractor. The contractor does not have to have any electrical credentials to obtain the license.

What this means to you: You can't freelance work. You must either pay the tax yourself to obtain a contractor's license or you must get someone who has paid the tax and obtained a license to represent you. They will probably take a cut of the money you earn.

Having the license does not waive any other requirements to perform the work.
 
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