I'm planning a 200A to 320A service upgrade as part of a major remodel. The existing 200A service is from an overhead mast, then to an interior wall where a Federal Electrical main service panel is hidden behind a closet door. (Home built in 1966).
The new plan is to install a Millbank U3251-O-200CB 320A ($732 ouch) meter socket for underground service which as 2EA 200A main disconnects on the exterior of the house. One of these will feed a 200A (40ckt) load center just on the inside of the wall. The plan is for that panel to feed the Shop/Airplane Hangar/Garage area, and a small bathroom on the south side of the house.
Then the second 200A service will run to a new 200A sub panel on the second floor laundry area so that the runs from the panel to the kitchen,laundry won't be as long. Additionally bumping up to 320A service will support an all electric hydronic boiler if we choose to go all electric heat.
I live in the Portland Oregon Area (Unincorporated Washington County) and am serviced by PGE (Portland General Electric). PGE has been terrific to work with, and indicated my choice of meter socket would be OK if it is EUSERC approved, which it is. However getting a chance to talk with the county inspector hasn't been as easy, (I still need to discuss my plans with them).
Here are my questions:
1) Will there be issues with trying to leave the Shop/Garage powered from one of the 200A service panels as temporary power, while the remodel of the living area which will eventually be fed by the second panel is demolished and rebuilt. (This is a county issue I know, but I thought I would ask the experts here).
2) Are there any NEC code issues with feeding from two sub-panels in the case where the structures are connected? Typically the 2EA 200A main disconnects might be used for two separate structures. I wonder about confusion as to what circuits are fed from what panels. I don't recall seeing anything in the code that discusses this. For example, I was going to have an imaginary dividing line between the living space and the garage/shop/hangar so that no circuit runs would cross that line.... however I'm considering that the outdoor lighting for example (floodlights) might be best served by the panel in the shop. What does the code suggest?
3) The shop wall is 2x4 wood stud. I was initially considering mounting the service panel flush between the studs, but am now considering adding a plywood mounting base and perhaps building a chase (wood/drywall) for routing cables to/from the shop. Or feeding the 240V lines to the panel in PVC conduit to/from the various mechanical items in the shop. (Hydronic boiler, water heater/ well pump etc). Having the lines in conduit for these things would provide more flexibility in the future for mechanical upgrades without having to tear into the drywall. But on the other hand, looks rather industrial and not as "finished". The other advantage would be that I get 2x4 insulation behind the panel, where if I flush mount the panel, I loose a big chunk of insulation.
4) If anyone has a lower cost alternative to the $732 Millbank solution, I'm interested in hearing it. My wife is not interested in the Seimens and other Meter/Load Center options with all the breakers on the outside of the house. An alternate solution (more desirable) would be to use the existing 200A main disconnect in the shop sub-panel, and have another 200A disconnect adjacent on the inside. I have been unable to locate a single main disconnect enclosure in the on line catalogs. Purchasing a second 200A load center for the shop might be cheaper in the long run, and I could just bite the bullet and have long cable runs from the garage for all the 240V branch circuits I need.
Please include the relevant code section so I can review the NEC. (I'm using the 2005 code).
Thanks for the feedback!
--Regards
Ross
The new plan is to install a Millbank U3251-O-200CB 320A ($732 ouch) meter socket for underground service which as 2EA 200A main disconnects on the exterior of the house. One of these will feed a 200A (40ckt) load center just on the inside of the wall. The plan is for that panel to feed the Shop/Airplane Hangar/Garage area, and a small bathroom on the south side of the house.
Then the second 200A service will run to a new 200A sub panel on the second floor laundry area so that the runs from the panel to the kitchen,laundry won't be as long. Additionally bumping up to 320A service will support an all electric hydronic boiler if we choose to go all electric heat.
I live in the Portland Oregon Area (Unincorporated Washington County) and am serviced by PGE (Portland General Electric). PGE has been terrific to work with, and indicated my choice of meter socket would be OK if it is EUSERC approved, which it is. However getting a chance to talk with the county inspector hasn't been as easy, (I still need to discuss my plans with them).
Here are my questions:
1) Will there be issues with trying to leave the Shop/Garage powered from one of the 200A service panels as temporary power, while the remodel of the living area which will eventually be fed by the second panel is demolished and rebuilt. (This is a county issue I know, but I thought I would ask the experts here).
2) Are there any NEC code issues with feeding from two sub-panels in the case where the structures are connected? Typically the 2EA 200A main disconnects might be used for two separate structures. I wonder about confusion as to what circuits are fed from what panels. I don't recall seeing anything in the code that discusses this. For example, I was going to have an imaginary dividing line between the living space and the garage/shop/hangar so that no circuit runs would cross that line.... however I'm considering that the outdoor lighting for example (floodlights) might be best served by the panel in the shop. What does the code suggest?
3) The shop wall is 2x4 wood stud. I was initially considering mounting the service panel flush between the studs, but am now considering adding a plywood mounting base and perhaps building a chase (wood/drywall) for routing cables to/from the shop. Or feeding the 240V lines to the panel in PVC conduit to/from the various mechanical items in the shop. (Hydronic boiler, water heater/ well pump etc). Having the lines in conduit for these things would provide more flexibility in the future for mechanical upgrades without having to tear into the drywall. But on the other hand, looks rather industrial and not as "finished". The other advantage would be that I get 2x4 insulation behind the panel, where if I flush mount the panel, I loose a big chunk of insulation.
4) If anyone has a lower cost alternative to the $732 Millbank solution, I'm interested in hearing it. My wife is not interested in the Seimens and other Meter/Load Center options with all the breakers on the outside of the house. An alternate solution (more desirable) would be to use the existing 200A main disconnect in the shop sub-panel, and have another 200A disconnect adjacent on the inside. I have been unable to locate a single main disconnect enclosure in the on line catalogs. Purchasing a second 200A load center for the shop might be cheaper in the long run, and I could just bite the bullet and have long cable runs from the garage for all the 240V branch circuits I need.
Please include the relevant code section so I can review the NEC. (I'm using the 2005 code).
Thanks for the feedback!
--Regards
Ross
