New "Bonded" definition in '08

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wbalsam1

wbalsam1

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In the '08 NEC there appears in Article 100, Definitions, a new definition called: Bonded (Bonding). Connected to establish electrical continuity and conductivity.
So if continuity means the state or quality of being continuous by means of connectedness,wouldn't something "electrically continuous" also be "electrically conductive"? Does this definition need a bit more clarity..or am I having another "spell"? :-? (or both?):D (this could actually be a dumb question, but even if it is, I may learn something here. Fire away):smile:

In other words: What is the difference between electrical continuity and electrical conductivity when it relates to bonding?
 
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Many things can have continuity without being electrically conductive.

A film has continuity, or at least it should.

A plastic water piping system has continuity without being electrically conductive.


Or iaov may be right. :cool:
 
wbalsam1 said:
In the '08 NEC there appears in Article 100, Definitions, a new definition called: Bonded (Bonding). Connected to establish electrical continuity and conductivity.
So if continuity means the state or quality of being continuous by means of connectedness,wouldn't something "electrically continuous" also be "electrically conductive"? Does this definition need a bit more clarity..or am I having another "spell"? :-? (or both?):D (this could actually be a dumb question, but even if it is, I may learn something here. Fire away):smile:

In other words: What is the difference between electrical continuity and electrical conductivity when it relates to bonding?
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I do not know if there is a difference between continuity and conductivity in this definition.
 
iwire said:
Many things can have continuity without being electrically conductive.
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But the definition is discussing electrical continuity and electrical conductivity

iwire said:
A film has continuity, or at least it should.
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See above.

iwire said:
A plastic water piping system has continuity without being electrically conductive.
Click to expand...
But the definition is discussing electrical continuity and electrical conductivity


iwire said:
Or iaov may be right. :cool:
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I agree :)
 
250.8

250.8

wbalsam1 said:
In the '08 NEC there appears in Article 100, Definitions, a new definition called: Bonded (Bonding). Connected to establish electrical continuity and conductivity.

In other words: What is the difference between electrical continuity and electrical conductivity when it relates to bonding?
Click to expand...

Hi wbalsam1,

A good question. Bonding is a material connection for electrical continuity for conductive functions most associated with equipment grounding and ground electrode connections.

Keep in mind that 'bonding' is the actual termination application methods as permitted in Article 250.8(A).
 
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Bonding Values

Bonding Values

wbalsam1 said:
My point exactly. Very nice explanation of the actual functions. :smile:
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wbalsam1,

Thank You. There are Five classes of bonding that NASA has for plant facilities, ground and space vehicles that could be beneficial to the electrical trades in general. The standards for bonding characteristics are described by formula in the original 1996 bonding standards but were removed from the 2003 release. This data would eliminate the NEC confusion on what establishes true electrical bonding for safety requirements by value.

I believe the two standards are still available on the internet NASA site. The Bonding Std-P023 and NASA-STD-4003 specifies actual impedance and resistive values covering interfacing faying surfaces.

This data may be of valuable interest for Class C (Circuit), Class H (Hazard Equipment Faults), Class L (Lightning and Transients), Class R (Electromagnetic and RF), and Class S (Electrostatic and Frictional references).

Happy Holidays to All. rbj
 
wbalsam1 said:
In the '08 NEC there appears in Article 100, Definitions, a new definition called: Bonded (Bonding). Connected to establish electrical continuity and conductivity.
So if continuity means the state or quality of being continuous by means of connectedness,wouldn't something "electrically continuous" also be "electrically conductive"? Does this definition need a bit more clarity..or am I having another "spell"? :-? (or both?):D (this could actually be a dumb question, but even if it is, I may learn something here. Fire away):smile:

In other words: What is the difference between electrical continuity and electrical conductivity when it relates to bonding?
Click to expand...


maybe it means that if you are using a #12 awg for a bonding jumper you are electrically continuous, but if that #12 is required to be a #1 then in a fault condition it will not be conductive for as long as it should be.
 
iwire said:
Many things can have continuity without being electrically conductive.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. A PVC conduit has continuity form box to box but it does not conduct current. The conductors installed within have both continuity from box to box and conductivity for the current allowed by the overcurrent device.

iwire said:
A film has continuity, or at least it should.
Click to expand...
iwire said:
A plastic water piping system has continuity without being electrically conductive.
Click to expand...
Again I agree


iwire said:
Or iaov may be right.
Click to expand...


I believewhat is being said in the definition is that the bonding needs to be continuous (continuity) from the point of bond back to the service source and have the ability to conduct (conductivity) any fault that occurs on the path.

I also believe that it is addressing the conductor not what is being bonded. For example a metal water pipe that is bonded, the conductor that is used to do the bonding is required to have continuity and conductivity not the metal water pipe. The installation of the metal water pipe is outside the scope of the NEC therefore it is not required to have continuity and conductivity. At one time the NEC did require that all metal pipes be electrically continuous it is no longer required by the NEC. The only requirement is that the metal water pipe be bonded and that the bonding has electrical continuity and conductivity.
 
I do not know if there is a difference between continuity and conductivity in this definition.
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Well we Do, as electricians, establish this every day, if they don't know,
well they just shouldn't be involved...! IMMHO
 
jwelectric said:
Yes I agree. A PVC conduit has continuity form box to box but it does not conduct current. The conductors installed within have both continuity from box to box and conductivity for the current allowed by the overcurrent device.

Again I agree




I believewhat is being said in the definition is that the bonding needs to be continuous (continuity) from the point of bond back to the service source and have the ability to conduct (conductivity) any fault that occurs on the path.

I also believe that it is addressing the conductor not what is being bonded. For example a metal water pipe that is bonded, the conductor that is used to do the bonding is required to have continuity and conductivity not the metal water pipe. The installation of the metal water pipe is outside the scope of the NEC therefore it is not required to have continuity and conductivity. At one time the NEC did require that all metal pipes be electrically continuous it is no longer required by the NEC. The only requirement is that the metal water pipe be bonded and that the bonding has electrical continuity and conductivity.
Click to expand...

I agree with this here post.
 
sparkchaser1961 said:
I agree with this here post.
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I believe what is being said in the definition is that the bonding needs to be continuous (continuity) from the point of bond back to the service source and have the ability to conduct (conductivity) any fault that occurs on the path.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what it's all about !

I work in the only Job where there is no potential desired!
 
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jwelectric said:
?At one time the NEC did require that all metal pipes be electrically continuous it is no longer required by the NEC. The only requirement is that the metal water pipe be bonded and that the bonding has electrical continuity and conductivity.
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Unless it?s used as an electrode, ?The metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 10? or more?electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints)?, 250.52(A)(1). :)
 
Hers the panel statement:
The purpose of bonding is to connect two or more conductive objects together to:

(1) ensure the electrical continuity of the fault current path, and
(2) provide the capacity and ability to conduct safely any fault current likely to be imposed, and
(3) minimize potential differences (voltage) between conductive components.
The intent of the term bonding is to convey that normally non-current
carrying conductive materials likely to become energized must be electrically connected together and to the supply source in a manner that establishes an effective fault current path. ?Normally non-current carrying conductive
materials likely to become energized? include:
(1) conductive materials enclosing electrical conductors or equipment, or
(2) forming part of such equipment, or
(3) other electrically conductive materials and equipment that may present a
shock hazard.
There are conditions in the Code where specific bonding is required solely to
minimize the difference of potential (voltage) between conductive components.
 
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