new construction, incorrectly labeled breakers

[malachi constant]

As a consulting engineer we typically specify for the faceplate of outlets to be labeled with circuiting information. And of course for panel directories to be created. I have always assumed that even in new construction a small percentage of outlets get mis-labeled, and maybe from time to time a couple breakers get their labeling mixed up. I'm not the one doing the labeling, and it is not a level of detail I am expected to verify, and it rarely if ever gets brought up as a concern after occupancy, so I have not given this much thought before.

We have a large new building, let's generically call it a "facility with critical power needs", where a contractor doing maintenance noticed "a few" outlets and breakers are mislabeled. The maintenance contractor immediately corrected the labeling. There is discussion as to whether this is indicative of a greater problem and whether it necessitates hiring an agent to trace each circuit for accuracy.

So the two parts to this situation are what is "to normally be expected" and what is "actually acceptable in this facility". Those may be two different things. My question for the community is only regarding the former - what is a "normal level of mislabeling" during new construction. Is this a big red flag? Little red flag? To be completely expected from even the best contractors on large enough projects? Your feedback will help inform our team's discussion as to how proceed.

Thanks!

 

[gadfly56]

As a consulting engineer we typically specify for the faceplate of outlets to be labeled with circuiting information. And of course for panel directories to be created. I have always assumed that even in new construction a small percentage of outlets get mis-labeled, and maybe from time to time a couple breakers get their labeling mixed up. I'm not the one doing the labeling, and it is not a level of detail I am expected to verify, and it rarely if ever gets brought up as a concern after occupancy, so I have not given this much thought before.

We have a large new building, let's generically call it a "facility with critical power needs", where a contractor doing maintenance noticed "a few" outlets and breakers are mislabeled. The maintenance contractor immediately corrected the labeling. There is discussion as to whether this is indicative of a greater problem and whether it necessitates hiring an agent to trace each circuit for accuracy.

So the two parts to this situation are what is "to normally be expected" and what is "actually acceptable in this facility". Those may be two different things. My question for the community is only regarding the former - what is a "normal level of mislabeling" during new construction. Is this a big red flag? Little red flag? To be completely expected from even the best contractors on large enough projects? Your feedback will help inform our team's discussion as to how proceed.

Thanks!

On a residential level, if my personal experience - which is limited to the three houses I've actually occupied - is any indication, the normal level of mislabeling is 0%, 'cause nothing ever gets labeled. As maintenance issues come up around my current domicile, I've taken to writing the circuit number on the back of the switch plate and I keep a spread sheet with the circuit numbers that I'll add a note to.

 

[celtic]

As a consulting engineer we typically specify for the faceplate of outlets to be labeled with circuiting information. And of course for panel directories to be created. I have always assumed that even in new construction a small percentage of outlets get mis-labeled, and maybe from time to time a couple breakers get their labeling mixed up. I'm not the one doing the labeling, and it is not a level of detail I am expected to verify, and it rarely if ever gets brought up as a concern after occupancy, so I have not given this much thought before.

We have a large new building, let's generically call it a "facility with critical power needs", where a contractor doing maintenance noticed "a few" outlets and breakers are mislabeled. The maintenance contractor immediately corrected the labeling. There is discussion as to whether this is indicative of a greater problem and whether it necessitates hiring an agent to trace each circuit for accuracy.

So the two parts to this situation are what is "to normally be expected" and what is "actually acceptable in this facility". Those may be two different things. My question for the community is only regarding the former - what is a "normal level of mislabeling" during new construction. Is this a big red flag? Little red flag? To be completely expected from even the best contractors on large enough projects? Your feedback will help inform our team's discussion as to how proceed.

Thanks!

IMHO,
all that really matters is:
What is your level of comfort with mislabeled critical power feeds/branch circuits?


If it were me, and these are critical for an operating room - comfort level is 0.
I want NO liability from mistakes in something as simple as labeling.

What type of facility are you actually talking about?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I can never get my guys to be as accurate as I want. In new construction they do much better but it so easy to get things wrong. I have them label every cable that is pull as a homerun and somehow they still screw it open now and then.

I do resi work but I can easily see how commercial work would be just as easy to mess up. I suspect it is pretty common at least for a few circuits.

 

[malachi constant]

IMHO,
all that really matters is:
What is your level of comfort with mislabeled critical power feeds/branch circuits?

If it were me, and these are critical for an operating room - comfort level is 0.
I want NO liability from mistakes in something as simple as labeling.

I agree that is the fundamental issue here, and the Owner is working that out. But it's not my question! The question I'm curious about is how often are receptacles/circuits mislabeled?

Part of the reason I ask is the installing contractor may get asked to pay for someone to come in and independently check every critical circuit. I haven't been asked to get involved in those discussions, but if I do get asked I'd like to know what are reasonable expectations.

 

[celtic]

I agree that is the fundamental issue here, and the Owner is working that out. But it's not my question!

Fair enough, but the Q&A needs more input from you.

The question I'm curious about is how often are receptacles/circuits mislabeled?

In my experience, the more hands on a particular installation, the more opportunities for error...in general.
When I wired condos..level of error was 0%...1 man per unit, instructions were detailed.
Commercial/lt. industrial...mislabeling was frequent...partially due to installer error, partially due to change orders that didn't reach front lines in a timely fashion, etc. Errors in labeling were generally ignored/not relabeled.
Heavy industrial/power generation/transportation....0%....if it's not right, it doesn't work at all [layers of fault detection, etc].

Part of the reason I ask is the installing contractor may get asked to pay for someone to come in and independently check every critical circuit. I haven't been asked to get involved in those discussions, but if I do get asked I'd like to know what are reasonable expectations.

Whats "reasonable" depends on the facility and your comfort level.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Malachi, think about how difficult it is to mark every receptacle that is controlled by a circuit in a panel directory. If there are receptacles throughout many rooms there isn't enough space to put them in a directory.

 

[malachi constant]

Malachi, think about how difficult it is to mark every receptacle that is controlled by a circuit in a panel directory. If there are receptacles throughout many rooms there isn't enough space to put them in a directory.

I don't think anyone would expect every outlet to be accounted for in the panel directory. But the outlet should have the correct panel & circuit labeled on it. And the panelboard shouldn't have rooms switched around (for instance dishwasher and vending machine circuits swapped). I don't know the details but am guessing they found a scenario like one of those.

Celtic - that is very helpful information. That's what I assumed to be the case - the bigger the project, the more hands involved, the more likely something gets miscommunicated along the way. It's like a real-life game of telephone, except we're playing with line voltage.

FYI, the mislabeled outlets were in a non-critical area. Sounds like the contractor is going to come back and trace out the critical circuits.

 

[electricalist]

I would first ask for the as builts and see how the circuits align. .
We have guys who can wire a comm bldg and are just doing code compliant work, we have guys who neatly label every thing they touch....mostly we have customers who dont pay until we provide as builts that show all circuits added deleted changed and existing.
Critical says someone is gonna have to take responsibility if something isnt right.
I would contact the ec and see what he would charge to come in and identify the circuit by label at each device and mention you have uncertainty that you cant risk. You ll pay a little something but it ll get resolved with your help.

 

[jeremysterling]

But the outlet should have the correct panel & circuit labeled on it. And the panelboard shouldn't have rooms switched around...

...Sounds like the contractor is going to come back and trace out the critical circuits.

I do not like mislabeled breakers. I update panel schedules regularly. I keep white out tape in my truck for corrections as I learn of them.

As for the device trim plates labels, could they have been inadvertently swapped around by the painting contractor? This happens on occasion.

 

[jusme123]

...could be a problem if 2 separate circuits , on same phase, where mis-spliced in a JB, this would increase amperage for overload problem. Have maintenance circuit trace a panel each week, and label accordingly.

 

[cpblock]

As a consulting engineer we typically specify for the faceplate of outlets to be labeled with circuiting information. And of course for panel directories to be created. I have always assumed that even in new construction a small percentage of outlets get mis-labeled, and maybe from time to time a couple breakers get their labeling mixed up. I'm not the one doing the labeling, and it is not a level of detail I am expected to verify, and it rarely if ever gets brought up as a concern after occupancy, so I have not given this much thought before.

We have a large new building, let's generically call it a "facility with critical power needs", where a contractor doing maintenance noticed "a few" outlets and breakers are mislabeled. The maintenance contractor immediately corrected the labeling. There is discussion as to whether this is indicative of a greater problem and whether it necessitates hiring an agent to trace each circuit for accuracy.

So the two parts to this situation are what is "to normally be expected" and what is "actually acceptable in this facility". Those may be two different things. My question for the community is only regarding the former - what is a "normal level of mislabeling" during new construction. Is this a big red flag? Little red flag? To be completely expected from even the best contractors on large enough projects? Your feedback will help inform our team's discussion as to how proceed.

Thanks!

In my 20+ years of commercial elec. construction I have seen print changes due to circuiting and wire management issues that the EE didn't account for. I'm sure some were late changes or additions but many of these changes just "work better" for the contractor. That being said a QUALITY contractor would make every effort to provide accurate "as built" drawings.Now understand that most contractors push high speed instead of high quality. Sometimes competitive bidding takes all the profit out and things have to be done to make up for that. I had opportunity to work in an automotive manufacturing facility where every coverplate was marked with panel,column location,circuit,date of install,Contractor who dun it. In a situation with critical power needs I think this level of accuracy would be expected. I now work in maintenance position where we are on the receiving end of the problem you mention. We have remodeled buildings with new panel interiors and panel schedules that say "existing circuit",Not once or twice but 40 times a panel for 10-20 panels.No good attempt was even made to preserve old panel schedules for any reference. LOw bid gets it so hold them to specs and workman like installation.

 

[just the cowboy]

In indrustral a must

In indrustral a must

When we install a disconnect to a machine it needs to be properly labled for safety reasons. If you need to kill a machine you NEED to kill it. So 0% error is the target, in real life 95% get done right.



5

 

[Frank DuVal]

It is good to get safety equipment correct. And testing them should be required!

I was visiting a new building lab space, where there was a red emergency mushroom oiltight pushbutton operator mounted on the wall to shut off all power (not lights) in case of an emergency. As the lab was still unoccupied, I pushed the button. Hmm, power to receptacles and busduct was still on. I went towards the electrical room, and met another group of people wondering why their occupied lab went dead. Oops. Since it was new construction, I had them get the original contractor to rewire the shunt trips.

 

[Fishspark]

we typically specify for the faceplate of outlets to be labeled with circuiting information.



is it possible that the painter or someone removed the faceplates & reinstalled on a different circuit device.