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New fire alarm system is a huge burden on existing building

Tainted

Tainted

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Engineer (PE)
In NYC I am doing a fire alarm system design for a existing R2 residential portion of the building with 4 separate residential lobbies with no front desk. The building is mixed use, 1st floor has commercial units. The entire building shares the same sprinkler system and has a fire pump and multiple electric services and same block and lot. This building is considered a high rise because it is more than 75 feet tall.

I have some questions and because it's considered a high-rise it means that:

1) ARCS system must be designed and installed (will try to attempt to get a waiver but FDNY requires certificate of occupancy which the building does not have). What should I do if there is no certificate of occupancy?

2) All the fire command stations must be located in the all the 4 lobbies as per NYC BC 911.1 and NYC FC 907.4.1. This will affect the aesthetics of the lobbies and the lobbies doesn't even have a front desk. Is there any alternative? Has anyone had FDNY ever approved just to install remote annunciator at the lobby without a fire command stations in the lobbies?

3) It will require a fire command station printers as per NYC FC 907.4.2. Where should this printer be located? In all the lobbies? Again, this will affect aesthetics of the building and the building does not have a front desk!

4) Speakers for 1-way voice communication need to be installed in each dwelling unit as per NYC FC 907.5.2.2. This is a huge burden! Apartment owners will not be happy. We need to run new conduits for the speakers into all of the apartments which will damage finishes. Is there any alternative?
 
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Tainted

Tainted

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Engineer (PE)
zbang said:
Just curious here- that's a huge change to an existing building, what's driving the work? (Is it existing but unused, hence no CoO?)
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They have a old non-addressable fire alarm system that was intended to be used for R2 portion of the building, it is not functional properly and has never been filed with FDNY. My understanding is that if FDNY sees this system, they will give them a violation because it's not a legal system. Is there a way to get a waiver?
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Tainted said:
They have a old non-addressable fire alarm system that was intended to be used for R2 portion of the building, it is not functional properly and has never been filed with FDNY. My understanding is that if FDNY sees this system, they will give them a violation because it's not a legal system. Is there a way to get a waiver?
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I believe there is a process for regularizing bootleg installations of this sort, but I've never had to pursue it. Check the FDNY bulletins. Be prepared for a long slog.
 
Tainted

Tainted

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Engineer (PE)
gadfly56 said:
I believe there is a process for regularizing bootleg installations of this sort, but I've never had to pursue it. Check the FDNY bulletins. Be prepared for a long slog.
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I've tried looking at bulletins and never really found anything useful.

The only bulletin that comes close is from DOB (https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/bldgs_bulletins/bb_2024-001.pdf).

It reads ". FIRE ALARM SYSTEM REPLACEMENT - WORK PERMIT REQUIRED If an existing fire alarm system, previously approved under the 2014 BC, 2008 BC or Prior Codes, does not function properly and cannot be repaired in accordance with conditions listed in Sections II or III of this Bulletin, or if listed replacement parts are unavailable for any other reason, the building’s entire fire alarm system must be replaced with a new fire alarm system compliant with the current New York City Construction Codes and New York City Electric Code, and new applications for permit shall be filed accordingly."

See the text above I bolded, this fire alarm system has never been filed or approved. So does this bulletin even apply to my situation?
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Tainted said:
I've tried looking at bulletins and never really found anything useful.

The only bulletin that comes close is from DOB (https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/bldgs_bulletins/bb_2024-001.pdf).

It reads ". FIRE ALARM SYSTEM REPLACEMENT - WORK PERMIT REQUIRED If an existing fire alarm system, previously approved under the 2014 BC, 2008 BC or Prior Codes, does not function properly and cannot be repaired in accordance with conditions listed in Sections II or III of this Bulletin, or if listed replacement parts are unavailable for any other reason, the building’s entire fire alarm system must be replaced with a new fire alarm system compliant with the current New York City Construction Codes and New York City Electric Code, and new applications for permit shall be filed accordingly."

See the text above I bolded, this fire alarm system has never been filed or approved. So does this bulletin even apply to my situation?
Click to expand...
I'd have to say "no" to that question.
 
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