I have a customer with an old 100A Zinsco metered panel which he would like to update. The problem I have with replacing the panel is that it has been encapsulated by brick leaving me no way to remove the old can without removing a bunch of brick. Has anyone ever encountered this problem? If so, how did you go about it? My thought was to just replace the buss, breakers, and deadfront but finding a modern replacement may be a task. Any ideas?
New Guts For An Old Can
- Thread starter mmas0n
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ItsHot
Senior Member
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- A little piece of heaven!
Demo it!
Demo it!
Demo it! The biggest part of the job may be masonry work, but do it right!!:smile:
Demo it!
Demo it! The biggest part of the job may be masonry work, but do it right!!:smile:
ItsHot
Senior Member
- Location
- A little piece of heaven!
Welcome to the forum!:smile:
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
I provided a presentation not too long ago. I had a representative from UL there, and he touched on this very topic.
He said that replacing the panelboard of an existing enclosure can be performed under two circumstances.
1. the panelboard (guts) are listed/labeled for the enclosure.
2. the installation gets a field evaluation to determine if it is a suitable installation, if the panalboard is not listed for the enclosure.
He said that replacing the panelboard of an existing enclosure can be performed under two circumstances.
1. the panelboard (guts) are listed/labeled for the enclosure.
2. the installation gets a field evaluation to determine if it is a suitable installation, if the panalboard is not listed for the enclosure.
scottp628
Member
- Location
- Pacific North West
zinsco guts replacement
zinsco guts replacement
I found this on line at
http://www.inspect-ny.com/electric/Zinscoreplace.htm#Zinscoreplace1
I hope this will work for you
OPTION #1 RETROFIT KIT - Zinsco/Sylvania Panel Replacement - Option #1 Using the Eaton Corp., Cutler Hammer (E-CH) Products Adjustable Retrofit Kit
Adjustable Zinsco Sylvania Electric Panel Retrofit Kits produced by Eaton Corp., Cutler Hammer Products are a patented design new electric panel interior designed to replace aging electrical panels in residential and light commercial applications. The unique features are that the existing box and wiring can be re-used for convenience, if still in good working condition. Also, a custom trim to fit the existing box is available.
Using the retrofit kit involves disconnecting the electrical circuits from the existing load center "bus assembly" circuit breakers. The old bus assembly and other internal parts (neutral bus, ground bus, etc) in the existing panel are removed. The panel box or "enclosure" itself is left in place, and the electric circuit wires which entered that box are left undisturbed.
After inspection by the installer to confirm the soundness of the panel box, any openings in the box body are closed, a new load center (panel bus and circuit breaker set, ground and neutral bus bars) is mounted in the existing electric panel box, and the existing circuits are connected to the new circuit breakers.
The "field adjustable electric panel interior assembly" consists of an adjustable riser, the required interior bus assembly, and the appropriate neutral assembly and ground bar assembly. Additional kit components permit a new panel face to correctly fit the new bus assembly which has now been mounted in the old panel box.
On completion, all of the electrical parts inside the original electric panel have been replaced. Only the steel panel enclosure or "box" has been retained. The new parts and installation are made using UR and UL approved components. Wiring to comply with the electrical code, workmanship, and final code approval are the responsibility of the installing electrician, assured by an inspection by the local electrical inspector.
Not all Electrical Panels can be Upgraded using the Retrofit Kit - Size Matters
zinsco guts replacement
I found this on line at
http://www.inspect-ny.com/electric/Zinscoreplace.htm#Zinscoreplace1
I hope this will work for you
OPTION #1 RETROFIT KIT - Zinsco/Sylvania Panel Replacement - Option #1 Using the Eaton Corp., Cutler Hammer (E-CH) Products Adjustable Retrofit Kit
Adjustable Zinsco Sylvania Electric Panel Retrofit Kits produced by Eaton Corp., Cutler Hammer Products are a patented design new electric panel interior designed to replace aging electrical panels in residential and light commercial applications. The unique features are that the existing box and wiring can be re-used for convenience, if still in good working condition. Also, a custom trim to fit the existing box is available.
Using the retrofit kit involves disconnecting the electrical circuits from the existing load center "bus assembly" circuit breakers. The old bus assembly and other internal parts (neutral bus, ground bus, etc) in the existing panel are removed. The panel box or "enclosure" itself is left in place, and the electric circuit wires which entered that box are left undisturbed.
After inspection by the installer to confirm the soundness of the panel box, any openings in the box body are closed, a new load center (panel bus and circuit breaker set, ground and neutral bus bars) is mounted in the existing electric panel box, and the existing circuits are connected to the new circuit breakers.
The "field adjustable electric panel interior assembly" consists of an adjustable riser, the required interior bus assembly, and the appropriate neutral assembly and ground bar assembly. Additional kit components permit a new panel face to correctly fit the new bus assembly which has now been mounted in the old panel box.
On completion, all of the electrical parts inside the original electric panel have been replaced. Only the steel panel enclosure or "box" has been retained. The new parts and installation are made using UR and UL approved components. Wiring to comply with the electrical code, workmanship, and final code approval are the responsibility of the installing electrician, assured by an inspection by the local electrical inspector.
Not all Electrical Panels can be Upgraded using the Retrofit Kit - Size Matters
AV ELECTRIC
Senior Member
Years ago i had a company that replaced the old guts in a subpanel with new it wasnt cheap but saved alot on labor and down time they provided a new dead front and panel cover I provided the dimensions and they built it. Now this was a three phase panelboard not a resedential meter set up.Ive used the existing box as a junction box and install a surface mount next to the existing panel if its on the front of the house it may not look so great on the side or back ok this would have to be an overhead install You also could cut the drywall on the inside to make it work by removing the old and installing the new from the inside cut the brick to fit the new panel knowing the new panel is probably larger than the old thats probably the best way if you have access to the panel from the inside
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
This is what I was alluding to.
Even though there are manufacturers providing kits, there are still minimum requirements that will have to be adhered to.
The kits are not a "one size fits all" resolve.
"Not all Electrical Panels can be Upgraded using the Retrofit Kit - Size Matters
Field reports and comments from the manufacturer have pointed out that not every electrical panel is a candidate for upgrading using the retrofit kit discussed here. If the original electrical panel enclosure is itself too small to meet the size and space requirements of current electrical codes the entire panel will need to be replaced.
The following text provides an example of a case where, unfortunately, the old electrical panel was just too small to upgrade:
From email between a reader and the product manufacturer
While researching the service panel in a home I purchased this summer, I came across your retrofit kit for FPE service panels at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpereplace.htm I have a Stab-Lock C1410-14-125NI panel, 125amp, 120/240, 1 phase 3 wire. It currently has one 30a (dryer), one 40a (range) and one 50a (all other circuits) controlling 6 15a and 4 20a. I would like to upgrade to 150amp with a few more breaker spaces, if possible. The box measures 4 inches deep, 10 inches wide, 22-3/4 inches high inside measurements. The load center w/breakers is approximately 6-1/2inches wide by 15 inches high. The range wire is aluminum. I'm not sure if the incoming service wires are aluminum as well. The home was built in 1960. The existing panel is in excellent condition, no rust, all holes intact or in use. The existing wiring is in excellent shape. One local electrician told me that your product violates code.
Here is a clear and concise reply from the manufacturer:
Our retrofit kits are designed to be installed into enclosures where there is sufficient space to wire according to the National Electric Code. As the local electrician pointed out, the enclosure that you have is not large enough to allow for our kits to work. Being from 1960, the existing electrical panel was constructed prior to two NEC revisions that expanded the necessary wire bending space requirements. In addition, to increase the ampacity of the panel would require slightly more space. Unfortunately, for the application described, a new service will need to be installed."
Even though there are manufacturers providing kits, there are still minimum requirements that will have to be adhered to.
The kits are not a "one size fits all" resolve.
"Not all Electrical Panels can be Upgraded using the Retrofit Kit - Size Matters
Field reports and comments from the manufacturer have pointed out that not every electrical panel is a candidate for upgrading using the retrofit kit discussed here. If the original electrical panel enclosure is itself too small to meet the size and space requirements of current electrical codes the entire panel will need to be replaced.
The following text provides an example of a case where, unfortunately, the old electrical panel was just too small to upgrade:
From email between a reader and the product manufacturer
While researching the service panel in a home I purchased this summer, I came across your retrofit kit for FPE service panels at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpereplace.htm I have a Stab-Lock C1410-14-125NI panel, 125amp, 120/240, 1 phase 3 wire. It currently has one 30a (dryer), one 40a (range) and one 50a (all other circuits) controlling 6 15a and 4 20a. I would like to upgrade to 150amp with a few more breaker spaces, if possible. The box measures 4 inches deep, 10 inches wide, 22-3/4 inches high inside measurements. The load center w/breakers is approximately 6-1/2inches wide by 15 inches high. The range wire is aluminum. I'm not sure if the incoming service wires are aluminum as well. The home was built in 1960. The existing panel is in excellent condition, no rust, all holes intact or in use. The existing wiring is in excellent shape. One local electrician told me that your product violates code.
Here is a clear and concise reply from the manufacturer:
Our retrofit kits are designed to be installed into enclosures where there is sufficient space to wire according to the National Electric Code. As the local electrician pointed out, the enclosure that you have is not large enough to allow for our kits to work. Being from 1960, the existing electrical panel was constructed prior to two NEC revisions that expanded the necessary wire bending space requirements. In addition, to increase the ampacity of the panel would require slightly more space. Unfortunately, for the application described, a new service will need to be installed."
If your panel is the Zinsco panel I am thinking of, your going to have a hard time doing anything but demoing the old one & starting over.
Is the left panel below like the one your dealing with?
This is how "hacky" replaced the panel.
And this is what it looked like inside, before the replacement.
BTW, this passed inspection.
But since I have veered off topic,to return to the original topic if that Zinsco/Sylvania panel is the same, your not likely to find any way to get around getting the old junker out & replacing the whole thing w/ a new one.
Is the left panel below like the one your dealing with?
This is how "hacky" replaced the panel.
And this is what it looked like inside, before the replacement.
BTW, this passed inspection.
But since I have veered off topic,to return to the original topic if that Zinsco/Sylvania panel is the same, your not likely to find any way to get around getting the old junker out & replacing the whole thing w/ a new one.
Timothytech
Member
Zinsco panel
Zinsco panel
My son-in-law has a cabin in Tahoe with a Zinsco 100A panel like the one in the photo. I was amazed there was no subpanel plate covering the breakers when I opened it, just like the one in your photo. I thought I could simply order one (Pacific Coast Breaker has a deadfront Zinsco panel # RMBK 12-24C that looks like it would fit, but I can't get the dimensions.) It looks like it was made this way, but seems dangerous and illegal today. Does anyone know if a subpanel plate can be put over the breakers? A hinge is also missing. To meet code must it be upgraded? Thanks.
Zinsco panel
My son-in-law has a cabin in Tahoe with a Zinsco 100A panel like the one in the photo. I was amazed there was no subpanel plate covering the breakers when I opened it, just like the one in your photo. I thought I could simply order one (Pacific Coast Breaker has a deadfront Zinsco panel # RMBK 12-24C that looks like it would fit, but I can't get the dimensions.) It looks like it was made this way, but seems dangerous and illegal today. Does anyone know if a subpanel plate can be put over the breakers? A hinge is also missing. To meet code must it be upgraded? Thanks.
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