New Jersey adopts 2011

[RICK NAPIER]

NJ adopted the 2011 NEC with modifications May 7, 2012. You cannot find it in the UCC yet but here is a link to the law as was passed including modifications.http://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/codreg/pdf_rule_proposals/p2012_009_5_23_3_16.pdf

The 6 month grace period kicks in as of that date on all applications applied on that date forward. If you wish to remain under the 2008 remember to note it on your application.

 

[celtic]

Thanks Rick.

 

[Sierrasparky]

looks like no AFCI for extensions and modifications, so no AFCI in remodel situations where an existing circuit is used.
I wish it was that easy in CA.

 

[celtic]

looks like no AFCI for extensions and modifications, so no AFCI in remodel situations where an existing circuit is used.
I wish it was that easy in CA.

Where do you guys in Ca. get FPE AFCI CB's?

 

[Sierrasparky]

A panel not having provisions for AFCI or GFCI breakers means you don't comply with a rule?
Have you ever heard about a sub panel?
We install sub panels when we need additional circuits don't we?

This whole AFCI thing is a real pain in the neck. I just wish we were all on the same page.


Hey Cletic

How's it going? Been a while since we've opined.

 

[gadfly56]

Ahhh, fer cryin' out loud!! I haven't finished figuring out the 2008 edition :happysad:.

 

[celtic]

A panel not having provisions for AFCI or GFCI breakers means you don't comply with a rule?
Have you ever heard about a sub panel?
We install sub panels when we need additional circuits don't we?

This whole AFCI thing is a real pain in the neck. I just wish we were all on the same page.

Installing a sub because its needed is not the same.
If the panel had suitable amperage and slots or fuse holders available, forcing the HO into a sub-panel would be rather draconian - right?

Here is some further information:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/alerts/pdfs/rehab_2008nec_correction_ltr.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/publications/pdf_ccc/ccc_2010_vol_22_no3_fall.pdf

NJ Rehab Code is a handy tool.

Hey Celtic

How's it going? Been a while since we've opined.

I'm doing well, thank you..hope you are well also.:thumbsup:

 

[celtic]

Ahhh, fer cryin' out loud!! I haven't finished figuring out the 2008 edition :happysad:.

You have 6 months to master the '08 ~ then it's all '11 hmy:

 

[Sierrasparky]

Installing a sub because its needed is not the same.
If the panel had suitable amperage and slots or fuse holders available, forcing the HO into a sub-panel would be rather draconian - right?

Here is some further information:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/alerts/pdfs/rehab_2008nec_correction_ltr.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/publications/pdf_ccc/ccc_2010_vol_22_no3_fall.pdf

NJ Rehab Code is a handy tool.



I'm doing well, thank you..hope you are well also.:thumbsup:

needed :
would that because the code says so or because you or I know it will or will not work as installed.
here is where I am comming from. We make many installs because the code says so although it will work just fine. We need to install a new circuit for a newly installed kitchen microwave. There is no space left in the panel. The microwave can plug into the counter outlet if it is not installed above in a cabinet. I know that it is better to install the new circuit but you only need to if you install it in a certain way.

So making a statement that installing a sub to install a AFCI is draconian is an opinion.
Furthermore after reading about the AFCI and how it might not really work in the real world environment infuriates me. The only thing I want is clear and concise rule so everyone is competing eaqually.

and
I am doing ok given the environment.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Here is some further information:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/alerts/pdfs/rehab_2008nec_correction_ltr.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/publications/pdf_ccc/ccc_2010_vol_22_no3_fall.pdf

NJ Rehab Code is a handy tool.
.:thumbsup:

The information you listed is out of date. The Rehab code was updated to the 2008 NEC November 7, 2011. At this time the 2009 IRC, IBC, IMC and IFGC were also adopted hence the csst bonding requirements for rehab work. The rehab code does not have a grace period and was immediately enforceable for all new permit applications.

 

[celtic]

The information you listed is out of date.

The content is the same, is it not?
AFCI is required only when an approved AFCI CB is available on new circuits.

 

[celtic]

needed :
would that because the code says so or because you or I know it will or will not work as installed.
here is where I am comming from. We make many installs because the code says so although it will work just fine. We need to install a new circuit for a newly installed kitchen microwave. There is no space left in the panel. The microwave can plug into the counter outlet if it is not installed above in a cabinet. I know that it is better to install the new circuit but you only need to if you install it in a certain way.

So making a statement that installing a sub to install a AFCI is draconian is an opinion.
Furthermore after reading about the AFCI and how it might not really work in the real world environment infuriates me. The only thing I want is clear and concise rule so everyone is competing eaqually.

and
I am doing ok given the environment.

90.1(b)
What is "better", is not always "code"....and certainly an opinion.

 

[goldstar]

The information you listed is out of date. The Rehab code was updated to the 2008 NEC November 7, 2011. At this time the 2009 IRC, IBC, IMC and IFGC were also adopted hence the csst bonding requirements for rehab work. The rehab code does not have a grace period and was immediately enforceable for all new permit applications.

That's correct Rick. Just another side bar to this, I believe that prior to 11-7-11 under the NJ Rehab Code you could gut a house down to the studs and re-wire it completely and you weren't required to install arc faults or use TR receptacles as long as the foot print or elevation of the house remained the same. As of 11-7-11 you are now required to install arc faults (if the panel accepts them) and any readily accessible receptacles must be TR's. In a case where the foot print or elevation of the house changes, if the existing breaker panel does not accept arc faults you must install a sub-panel that will accept them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

This is where it gets complicated. If you replace the wiring to an existing circuit then you don't have to afci the circuit. So in theory you could gut a house and replace the existing circuits without afci protection but the AHJ would be within his rights to first ask for plans detailing the existing circuits to ensure that the new circuits are afci protected.

You never have to put in a subpanel for afci breakers since 6.4 Repairs and 6.8 Materials and Methods does not include 210.12 and 6.9 New Building Elements requires afci except when there is no breaker available to provide the protection. So for those old FPE, wadsworth, zinco and all the older breaker designs no afci required.

Yes tr receptacles are require in all cases that the NEC would require them since they are listed in 6.4 Repairs and 6.8 Materials and Methods.

 

[Lady Engineer]

This is helpful, thank you. I was using the 2008 still.