New meter enclosure

[goldstar]

I'm convinced this only happens in New Jersey. This woman's electric service was in extreme need of an upgrade and the siding guys made it worse (see if you can find the SE cable). The poco insisted that she have her service upgraded. This residence is in a lake community in northern NJ. Years ago people purchased property up here, built their own houses and did their own electrical and plumbing work. I haven't opened this make-shift enclosure yet but it's vinyl siding with an aluminum cover. This is an old 60 amp, 240 volt service. The second meter socket was specifically used for the 30 amp electric water heater where the HO was billed at a reduced rate :

Double meter enclosure (siding guy style)
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/Double_meter_2.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/Double_meter_1.jpg

Working meter
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/live_meter.jpg
Blank socket
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/empty_meter_socket.jpg

Poco attachment
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/poco_attachment_1.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/poco_attachment_2.jpg

Buried SE cable in roof tar
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/SEcable.jpg

First of 3 sub-panels all tapped off the main lugs and unfused.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/1st_sub_panel.jpg

This one is lucky enough to be in the basement. The main panel is on the 1st floor in a clothes closet. Now, remember I said this was a 60 amp service. All the branch circuit fuses are 30 amps (irrespective of the wire sizes). I'm guessing that they just got tired of the 15 and 20 amp fuses blowing all the time. There's also a 60 amp sub-panel with a 30 amp, 2-pole breaker for the water heater and a 50 amp, 2-pole breaker for the electric range.

This is going to be a fun job if I get it - but it ain't going to be cheap.

 

[infinity]

So what's your plan to replace this disaster?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I believe the service drop is in the soffit, not under the siding. It's hard to tell.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

There has definately been illegal work done, as those are not POCO splices

 

[goldstar]

So what's your plan to replace this disaster?

The house really needs a slow burn to the ground but in fairness it's the home of a very nice old lady who's deceased husband did the work. Not sure what I'll find once I remove the aluminum meter cover :roll: but basically a 150 amp service upgrade and a complete re-do of the range/water heater sub-panel in the basement. Anything terminated in the main fuse panel that can't be brought to the new main breaker panel in the basement will be put into a JB. The new SE cable will have to be installed on the siding and wrapped around the gutter in order to get up to the service drop.

I believe the service drop is in the soffit, not under the siding. It's hard to tell.

It's actually behind the gutter and under a vinyl facade from what I can tell. I plan to just abandon it if I get the job.

There has definately been illegal work done, as those are not POCO splices

No they're not, but I believe that the poco has never gone up on this roof or attemped to crimp these wires since the 1950's. They'll have to replace the triplex when they come to inspect.

 

[Jerseydaze]

Just curious why 150amp service and not 200 amp?Not sure what your saving?

 

[satcom]

Just curious why 150amp service and not 200 amp?Not sure what your saving?

It looks like a small home, electric heat? serious AC load ? electric range?

This past fall we did a home with almost the same problem, we did a 125 service 30 ckt panel, and ran the service in PVC cut back the old service cable, and left the mess behind the siding covered the old meter pans, and left the meter pans in place for the owner to cake care of repairs on the siding.

 

[goldstar]

Just curious why 150amp service and not 200 amp?Not sure what your saving?

It's a small house and a small piece of property. She's not going to be adding anything new like central air or a hot tub. If it weren't for the electric range I'd be installing a 100 amp service. Besides, I have to bend the SE cable around a rain gutter in order to get it up on the house near the drop. It's a lot easier to do with 150 amp SE cable than it is with 200 amp.

 

[goldstar]

It looks like a small home, electric heat? serious AC load ? electric range?

This past fall we did a home with almost the same problem, we did a 125 service 30 ckt panel, and ran the service in PVC cut back the old service cable, and left the mess behind the siding covered the old meter pans, and left the meter pans in place for the owner to cake care of repairs on the siding.

I plan to do basically the same thing except there's oil heat.



If you look at the poco attachment in this photo http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...tachment_1.jpg the existing meter location is on the side of the house about half way down the roof line. I considered putting up a mast but I would have to drill through the rain gutter to get it up over the roof. The existing interior location happens to be the only place in the basement (under current conditions) where I can locate the new breaker panel.

 

[LarryFine]

There has definately been illegal work done, as those are not POCO splices

Agreed. They look like phone-company grounding-wire clamps.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I plan to do basically the same thing except there's oil heat.



If you look at the poco attachment in this photo http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...tachment_1.jpg the existing meter location is on the side of the house about half way down the roof line. I considered putting up a mast but I would have to drill through the rain gutter to get it up over the roof. The existing interior location happens to be the only place in the basement (under current conditions) where I can locate the new breaker panel.

It's hard to tell, but I think I would set a new meter/ main on the side of the house, not the back, closest to the pole. Then run SER through the crawl. No need to fool with that other mess.

 

[goldstar]

It's hard to tell, but I think I would set a new meter/ main on the side of the house, not the back, closest to the pole. Then run SER through the crawl. No need to fool with that other mess.

If this were a normal house (one that was designed by an architect) I might consider doing that. However, the roof in the front of this photo http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/poco_attachment_1.jpg is a flat roof that used to be over an open front porch. The existing meter location is actually on the side of the house. I was hoping to locate the new meter there in an effort to cover up as much of the opening in the siding as possible. I thought I'd use 2 Arlington meter mounting back plates to cover up the opening.

If I get the job, I'll post the photo of how it turns out.

 

[goldstar]

This is the end result of the service upgrade :

New meter enclosure on top of 2 Arlington meter back plates

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/Picture001.jpg

Service head and SE cable installed to point of attachment

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/Picture002.jpg

Flex PVC installed over SE cable for protection

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/goldstar13397/New meter enclosure/Picture003.jpg

I didn't bother showing the breaker panel. We've all seen those

 

[augie47]

I'm suprised no one thought the SE drop over the roof was an issue

 

[fondini]

nice looking job, bushings not required on the pvc? [would be here that's why I ask] Good fix with the vinyl blocks.

 

[K8MHZ]

There has definately been illegal work done, as those are not POCO splices

Don't be so sure.

I found POCO installed split bolts on a bunch of drops (both ends) down an entire run of at least a block or so.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=124449

If the home is in a sub-division, the 120/240 for the entire sub-division may have been installed by a sub-contractor.

 

[K8MHZ]

I'm suprised no one thought the SE drop over the roof was an issue

That is hard for me to ignore. I am dealing with the roof issue on two upgrades as we speak. I have done upgrades where, due to the roof issue, a center tap had to be done on the other side of the house.

 

[K8MHZ]

Just curious....

Just curious....

Why was SE used instead of pipe and wire?

Personally, I don't like SE and will not install it.

Around here, using SE will get the inspector's microscope out.

 

[Mgraw]

Around here SE will get the inspectors red tag out.

 

[satcom]

Around here SE will get the inspectors red tag out.

The code permits the use of SE an inspector can not flag it unless there is a local law inforce, such as not to be used within 1 mile of tidal waters. he can't just flag it at will.

And that was for AL SE not copper, in some beach towns