New service for heat pump pool heaters.

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jarilu422

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I have a situation. I work for a pool heating/AC/ Electrical company that installs Geothermal water source heat pump. I have a job that the inspector has failed because we ran a new service for the geo heat pump system. He said "could not put more than one service on a building". We did not put the new service on the building, we put it on a banjo pole 40 feet from the building. We do not have any branch circuits from the new service that run into the building. Our service is strictly for the pool heating system. The reason why we did not upgrade the existing service was, the utilities X-form was over loaded. It would have been around $8,000.00 extra. We have done jobs like this in the past in the same municipality and it never has been a problem.
Can someone please give me some pointers. If we are in the wrong. If i got a fighting chance. I know he is the AHJ. Dose art. 230.2.(C)(2) come in to play? It is a single phase installation. Is there anything in 680 that I may have mist? Dose all the pool equipment need to be on the same service or panel? Thanks
 
Do any of your circuits extend to the pool or pool area ?
Is the pool lighting, recir system, etc fed from the structure ?
 
Here, the poco usually gets what they want. Did they approve the new service? How did the permit get this far without being noticed?
 
The pool equipment is fed from the existing service on the building. The new pool heaters are fed from the service on a banjo pole next to the pool equipment area. We have done installations like this in the past in the same county and it has not been a problem. It went throw plans reveiw with no problems. Everything was signed and stamped.
 
To me it's a bit of a gray area. Since the NEC definition of a "structure" is "That which is built or constructed", a pool could be considered a structure so a red flag could easily be raised.
I have had similar situations but not with a pool. Sine there is a pool involved, before I would be comfortable with it I would have to have an understanding that there was adequate bonding of all components from both services to a point that an engineer might need to be involved.
In your particular situation I would respectfully request that the Chief Inspector of Chief Building Official become involved. Seldom is the field inspector the actual AHJ and I would want other opinions.
 
You may have better luck if the entire pool was fed fromt that same service. Then no one could argue. The new service would be for the pool only. Thats just my guess though. No experience on this.
 
That is our next step. The Chief electrical inspector is involved and of course he is taking the side of his inspector. We are in the process of hiring an engineer. The Chief told us "Be prepared to argue the code". Your right it's gray but if it is wrong want him to give us a reasonable explanation. Not because I'm the AHJ. This will hinder the way we business in the future. Thanks for your input.
 
That was my first option. But the new service we ran, transformer is maxed with our new load. So there is 2 maxed transformers (existing service and new service). The utility Company is not doing me any favors. Plus the existing service on the building is a meter/main combo with feed through lugs. Some of the pool equipment comes the outside panel and the rest comes from the ML panel inside the building. A real hack job at best. We didn't want to get involved with building, so we added a new service separate from the building.
 
jarilu422 said:
That is our next step. The Chief electrical inspector is involved and of course he is taking the side of his inspector. We are in the process of hiring an engineer. The Chief told us "Be prepared to argue the code". Your right it's gray but if it is wrong want him to give us a reasonable explanation. Not because I'm the AHJ. This will hinder the way we business in the future. Thanks for your input.
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If he dose reject the install he must give you the code references that he has based his decision on. There is no room for "because I said so".

You could try the argument of 230.2 C 2. If you could get the poco to state that the existing XXX Kva transformer is what they normally supply. And this transformer will not handle the added load. And that there are no feeders or branch circuits going to the pool. You may have a chance.
 
jarilu422 said:
So there is 2 maxed transformers (existing service and new service). The utility Company is not doing me any favors.
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Don't worry too much about giving the PoCos transdformers a hard time; they will either take whatever load you put on them, or they'll pop and the utility will replace them.

As long as what you install from the demarc is NEC compliant, if the PoCo are mean on transformer sizing (as they almost always are) then its their lookout.
 
They are not excepting my service. What do you guys think of this? If the PoCo has to upgrade the transformer anyway, I will see if they can add another transformer so I can change my single phase service to a 3 phase Delta. I will change my pump to 3 phase and revise my plans. The conduit I had bored to the transformer is big enough for the extra phase and I should be good to go under article 230.2 (D)......
 
jarilu422 said:
They are not excepting my service. What do you guys think of this? If the PoCo has to upgrade the transformer anyway, I will see if they can add another transformer so I can change my single phase service to a 3 phase Delta. I will change my pump to 3 phase and revise my plans. The conduit I had bored to the transformer is big enough for the extra phase and I should be good to go under article 230.2 (D)......
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What was their code reference to why they would not allow it?
 
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