New Service to Feed the EV charges

[Electriman]

Hello every one,

A customer is adding a hand full of Fast EV chargers. Due to the amount of power that is required to feed the chargers, he either needs to get a new service or upgrade the existing service. But new service would be in conflict of NEC 230.3 (one service for each building). Therefore, he only can upgrade the existing service. Is there any exception applicable to this case to explain two services are permitted for this commercial customer?

Thank you in advance

 

[shortcircuit2]

Just add a service near the EVSE out in the parking lot.

 

[retirede]

Just add a service near the EVSE out in the parking lot.

Agreed. Good chance the utility will need to set a new transformer someplace anyway.

ETA - what are the voltages involved? The chargers will likely require 480V and depending on the existing business, it’s likely 208V. There is an exception to allow more than one service for different voltages.

 

[hillbilly1]

Hello every one,

A customer is adding a hand full of Fast EV chargers. Due to the amount of power that is required to feed the chargers, he either needs to get a new service or upgrade the existing service. But new service would be in conflict of NEC 230.3 (one service for each building). Therefore, he only can upgrade the existing service. Is there any exception applicable to this case to explain two services are permitted for this commercial customer?

Thank you in advance

A second service can be added if it is for a different voltage/phase using the exception. If the existing service is a delta, or 120/208 wye, or single phase, a second service 277/480 wye can be added, unless they have changed the rules. The last time I done that was about 40 years ago, but do know of one in Chattanooga that was done 10 years ago.

 

[kingpb]

Hello every one,

A customer is adding a hand full of Fast EV chargers. Due to the amount of power that is required to feed the chargers, he either needs to get a new service or upgrade the existing service. But new service would be in conflict of NEC 230.3 (one service for each building). Therefore, he only can upgrade the existing service. Is there any exception applicable to this case to explain two services are permitted for this commercial customer?

Thank you in advance

A handful doesn't really help define what may be needed. Can you give quantity and ratings?

 

[jaggedben]

230.2(C) has some allowances when a lot of power is needed. But as kingpb said we really need more details. I'm not even sure if 'fast' means Level II or Level III HVDC.

 

[retirede]

230.2(C) has some allowances when a lot of power is needed. But as kingpb said we really need more details. I'm not even sure if 'fast' means Level II or Level III HVDC.

The way I read the OP, he has already determined that the existing service is incapable of serving the new loads. He’s only questioning the legality of adding a second service.

While it’s not written in stone, “fast charging” is generally considered to be DC over 20KW.

 

[tortuga]

If its a bunch of 240V chargers ask for a 416Y240 service.

 

[kingpb]

If its a bunch of 240V chargers ask for a 416Y240 service.

Are those UL listed? 416Y/240V is a typical European voltage and is a 3-phase system. I think you could easily request a new 480V 3ph system then step it down to 416Y/240V.

 

[jaggedben]

The way I read the OP, he has already determined that the existing service is incapable of serving the new loads. He’s only questioning the legality of adding a second service.
...

Those sections I cited still speak to whether a new service could be legal or whether upgrading the existing one is required.

 

[hillbilly1]

Are those UL listed? 416Y/240V is a typical European voltage and is a 3-phase system. I think you could easily request a new 480V 3ph system then step it down to 416Y/240V.

Yeah, the poco’s hate oddball systems because they have to keep a spare in the yard, unless it’s pole mount where they can use a commonly used transformer.

 

[pv_n00b]

This has been a two part question in my experience. It should be easy to satisfy the NEC by using one of reasons for an extra service listed in 230.2(B) and (C). The second is the POCO, they get to decide if they want to supply a second service. Most are okay for dedicated DCFC chargers if they will get a lot of use. They want to sell the energy.

 

[Murphy79]

Hello every one,

A customer is adding a hand full of Fast EV chargers. Due to the amount of power that is required to feed the chargers, he either needs to get a new service or upgrade the existing service. But new service would be in conflict of NEC 230.3 (one service for each building). Therefore, he only can upgrade the existing service. Is there any exception applicable to this case to explain two services are permitted for this commercial customer?

Thank you in advance

I actually had to install (4) Tesla Level # chargers and it requires a seperated service for this application. It can be done. It also required me to build 1200a switchgear to accomodate.

 

[petersonra]

This has been a two part question in my experience. It should be easy to satisfy the NEC by using one of reasons for an extra service listed in 230.2(B) and (C). The second is the POCO, they get to decide if they want to supply a second service. Most are okay for dedicated DCFC chargers if they will get a lot of use. They want to sell the energy.

Many electric utilities no longer sell energy. They only provide the transmission capability. As a practical matter generally for residences they also do the billing for whomever is actually selling the energy and take responsibility for reading the meters and reporting usage to the energy supplier.

 

[Knightryder12]

I have never had a hard time getting a second service whether or not it was the same or different voltages. As long as it was "wink, wink" for a dedicated piece or pieces of equipment. Duke Energy (POCO) has never had a problem with it either.

 

[pv_n00b]

Many electric utilities no longer sell energy. They only provide the transmission capability. As a practical matter generally for residences they also do the billing for whomever is actually selling the energy and take responsibility for reading the meters and reporting usage to the energy supplier.

My experience is that, at least in CA, utilities are not in the business of generation but they are in the business of transmission and distribution. And they get a cut of the energy cost the customer pays, which is a percentage of the customer's energy usage. So they don't sell generated energy but their profits are tied to the customer's energy usage. So to say they don't sell energy is splitting hairs. It's like saying the market does not sell apples unless they grow them too.

 

[jaggedben]

Yeah. California's IOUs actually do still sell energy. But that market is deregulated and competitive compared to how it used to be, so I believe the majority of the IOU generation is legacy from last century. (e.g. PG&E's Canyon Diablo nuke plant, among a bunch of gas). So when it comes to tariff structures at the CPUC these days I think most of the tussling is over the distribution and transmission categories, where the IOUs basically still have a monoply. For example with NEM3 there was a post-decision tussle over how export credits would be credited to these different categories and the IOUs won. They always win on these issues that are too subtle for the public to care about. (Hey, people could pay more attention though.)