new service with 2 disconnects

[Greg1707]

I see a lot of new houses with a meter base and separate disconnect. What are the options for this setup? I would think a combination meter with one or two built in disconnects would look better?

 

[kwired]

I see a lot of new houses with a meter base and separate disconnect. What are the options for this setup? I would think a combination meter with one or two built in disconnects would look better?

Even with the separate enclosures it would look better if one found a way to not use that piece of SE cable feeding the far right disconnect.

Combination units over 200 amps are not all that common around here - I can't recall ever seeing one but I'm pretty sure there are some out there. Some of this could be because of what POCO's in the area approve for meter sockets? Some only allow certain meter sockets.

 

[augie47]

This, IMO, would be an improvement over what is pictured:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This, IMO, would be an improvement over what is pictured:

Or one panel on each side as we do it. Many people use the meter/main combo. It definitely is more compact and less labor intense but for some reason I still like the 2 panels for a 400 amp panel. Those 400 meter mains are about $600 - $700 dollars.

The pic of the service is an abortion imo.

 

[kwired]

Or one panel on each side as we do it. Many people use the meter/main combo. It definitely is more compact and less labor intense but for some reason I still like the 2 panels for a 400 amp panel. Those 400 meter mains are about $600 - $700 dollars.

The pic of the service is an abortion imo.

A 320 meter socket and a couple enclosed 200 amp breakers is likely in that same price range, and you still need to assemble them on the wall and provide conductors and likely terminals in the meter socket.

I guess part of reason I can't recall ever using one is I have always had just two raceways leaving the meter socket and usually have two main breaker panels on interior side of the wall or in the basement instead of on exterior.

 

[qcroanoke]

Or one panel on each side as we do it.

I would do it as Dennis suggests or raise the 1st disconnect far enough to allow a raceway to run underneath it into the 2nd disconnect.
Assuming load goes out of the back of the disconnects and not the bottom.

 

[Jraef]

Might that not be a line side breaker and a load side breaker? It's been mentioned in here that some utilities are now requiring a disconnect AHEAD of the meter socket.

 

[qcroanoke]

Might that not be a line side breaker and a load side breaker? It's been mentioned in here that some utilities are now requiring a disconnect AHEAD of the meter socket.

I cannot even imagine our POCO requiring a breaker in front of their meter.

 

[kwired]

I cannot even imagine our POCO requiring a breaker in front of their meter.

Breaker probably not, unfused disconnect - many only want to see that on over 250 volts to ground if it is self contained metering, most popular place to see that is for 200 amp or less 480/277 volt services.

 

[qcroanoke]

Breaker probably not, unfused disconnect - many only want to see that on over 250 volts to ground if it is self contained metering, most popular place to see that is for 200 amp or less 480/277 volt services.

That scenario maybe.
120/240 service..... There are a lot of idiots out there that would love to be able to get in front of the meter with a well hidden tap.

 

[iwire]

Breaker probably not, unfused disconnect - many only want to see that on over 250 volts to ground if it is self contained metering, most popular place to see that is for 200 amp or less 480/277 volt services.

In my area I have not seen it for dwellings but some local power companies do require a disconnecting means of some type ahead of the metering for services greater than 250 volts to ground.

 

[kwired]

That scenario maybe.
120/240 service..... There are a lot of idiots out there that would love to be able to get in front of the meter with a well hidden tap.

When there is a line side disconnect they put same lock or seal on that disconnect as they put on the meter enclosure, which is one reason they require non fused disconnect - they don't want to have to deal with blown fuse service calls just because the fuse is behind their lock or seal.

So this disconnect is for the most part about as hard to make an illegal tap to as the meter is.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Breaker probably not, unfused disconnect - many only want to see that on over 250 volts to ground if it is self contained metering, most popular place to see that is for 200 amp or less 480/277 volt services.

Where our utility requires a disconnect ahead of their meter, they require that disconnect to contain the service OCPD.

1. Single, and three phase, 480V, less than 201 Amp, services
a) A breaker or fused disconnect located on the line side of the meter (cold sequence metering) is required for all 277/480V and 480V services 200 amp and below.
b) It shall be the customer’s responsibility to provide the proper interrupting rating device on the line side.
c) Ameren should be contacted to determine available short circuit current.
d) Use of separate enclosures for the line side protective device and the meter enclosure is acceptable. However they must be mounted directly above, or on a horizontal plane, within 4 feet of one another.
e) Continuous conduit with no LB’s or any other connector that could allow access to un−metered wiring is allowed between the protective device enclosure and meter enclosure.
f) Sealing provisions for the line side protective device must be provided to prevent access to un−metered conductors within this enclosure.
g) A pad lockable door for access by the customer to operate the protective device should be provided.

 

[GoldDigger]

Which technically means that the meter and wiring to it are governed by NEC rules and are part of a feeder that you do not have access to.
Strange, but not intrinsically wrong, I guess.
Do they want the ground/neutral bond and GEC connection to be in that sealed enclosure too?

 

[Iron_Ben]

In my area I have not seen it for dwellings but some local power companies do require a disconnecting means of some type ahead of the metering for services greater than 250 volts to ground.

We (poco) added that requirement on 480Y/277 services up to 800 amps. That was around the year 2000. It was in effect for about 5 years until we came around to practicality and did away with it. Well intentioned but a mistake. Doesn't sound like a big deal on the surface but it was. It added cost and complexity to all such jobs for minimal benefit (ability for us to more easily deenergize and access meter).

From about 2000 to 2005, we (poco) required a disconnect ahead of the meter on 480 volt services. It added cost and complexity and I was glad when we did away with it. It may return some day, but those of us in the trenches danced a little jig when the requirement was rescinded ten or so years ago.

 

[iwire]

Odd, if anything I thing we will see more cold sequence requirements not less.

I really do not see any complexity, we do it all the time, here is a 1600 amp cold sequence service. Its not complex, we just order the gear to be set up that way.

 

[peter d]

If I were a meter technician, I would certainly like to have a disconnect means ahead of it on a 480 volt service. :happyyes:

It's also a requirement in my area (National Grid, for those of you in New England) to have a fusible disconnect ahead of the meter (with high AIC fuses) for any network fed service, for obvious reasons.

 

[danielrourk2015]

We are currently discussing a building on the property for the meter enclosure and transfer switch


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