i have a bid with prints showing 439' from POCO to Meter but no wire size. it give all other information from meter to panel to equipment but no service entrance size.The service is single phase 240v 200a. Who would decides what size wire it needs to be? and if you do what size could it be. when i do calculations wire needs to be 500mcm copper and aluminum. do you guys think im doing this wrong?? what am i missing.
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junkhound
Senior Member
- Location
- Renton, WA
- Occupation
- EE, power electronics specialty
No clue where your are or your poco.
Is the 439 ft on public right of way or on HO property?
Out here (PNW, PSE) it is the poco call for their service to you across your property. Pretty sure PSE (Potelco) would simply pull 4/0 aluminum even for 439 ft for just a 200A service. If there is an existing transformer 439 ft away.
Out here, POCO is pretty specific about direct burial - if you don't have a few big piles of sand for the first 6" backfill, they will NOT install the service. YOU dig the trench.
If overhead, they may run a HV line to new xfmr on a pole at your property line and drop a #2 (not a typo, NOT 2/0) aerial service. Did that for me once when the house was 550 ft from nearest pole and was 60 ft overhead service from property line.
Is the 439 ft on public right of way or on HO property?
Out here (PNW, PSE) it is the poco call for their service to you across your property. Pretty sure PSE (Potelco) would simply pull 4/0 aluminum even for 439 ft for just a 200A service. If there is an existing transformer 439 ft away.
Out here, POCO is pretty specific about direct burial - if you don't have a few big piles of sand for the first 6" backfill, they will NOT install the service. YOU dig the trench.
If overhead, they may run a HV line to new xfmr on a pole at your property line and drop a #2 (not a typo, NOT 2/0) aerial service. Did that for me once when the house was 550 ft from nearest pole and was 60 ft overhead service from property line.
IN HoustonTX and owner property. its spec for 3'' conduit from service pole to meter base. 439'. all underground. i was concerned with distance and VD. also who would take responsiblity EC or engineer. Thanks for inout
Mike's VD calculator shows using a 350 Cu or 600 AL to maintain a 3% VD at that length with a 200 amp load.
That said, it would be rare to see that your load was actually 200 A and locally POCO would certainly pull smaller if it was their pull (local POCOs will not supply wire for a service that long)
If there are engineered drawings indicating the size that would be my guide.
That said, it would be rare to see that your load was actually 200 A and locally POCO would certainly pull smaller if it was their pull (local POCOs will not supply wire for a service that long)
If there are engineered drawings indicating the size that would be my guide.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Augie, what is the link to the MH calculator?
Using Southwire's VD calculator, I got 500 MCM for copper and 1000 MCM for aluminum for <3% VD @ 439', 200A. Not sure where I am going wrong on that.
Using Southwire's VD calculator, I got 500 MCM for copper and 1000 MCM for aluminum for <3% VD @ 439', 200A. Not sure where I am going wrong on that.
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Go to the top of this page & "Click Here to Visit WWW.MikeHolt.Com"
Then choose VD calculator from the list.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
I think that one gives wacky answers sometimes. Just a few days ago I compared it with two others and it was the odd man out.....
Iron_Ben
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, PA
439' is too long for a service to a house. Yes, I've seen them that long and longer but it's asking for trouble. If this wire is on the line side of the meter as you indicate, then it's 99.8% likely that it's the POCO's wire. I have a funny feeling that they are not involved in this particular job, so a call to them is where I would start. It's disappointing how often people will spend weeks and months drawing up plans but can't take the time to call the local power company.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Did whoever designed the rest state a calculated load and an acceptable voltage drop? If not either ask for clarification or give two bids, one for the cheapest way to do it, one that clearly states what performance issues it resolves.
this isnt a house its a service for telecom equipment. the service is a 240v/200a service. i have seen 4/0 aluminum on some services that long.
my question was who would normally be responsible for service wire engineer or EC.. here in Houston electrician pulls wire from service pole to meter on this application. the plans dont show the size wire from pole to meterlloop. its just a question. we are now waiting for response from engineer,
:thumbsup: best plan !!!!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Telecom equipment - does it primarily supply battery charging equipment? You may be able to get away with more VD if it does. May or may not be a good design, but the batteries are essentially supplying the more critical load and you are just supplying charging current, there may be HVAC, lighting and other misc loads that won't be too effected by some voltage drop.
rlundsrud
Senior Member
- Location
- chicago, il, USA
Here in Illinois, I just provide the conduit and a pull string. The cable is ComEds problem, the same as if it was an overhead service. Why are they making you provide the cable, everything downstream from the meter shouldn't be on you.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
did you mean upstream from the meter?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Which direction do electrons swim?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Alternating current - they go back and forth:happyyes:Which direction do electrons swim?
Yes Sir you are exactly right!. The engineer came back with 3/0 wire. they said the VD doesnt apply to Service entrance wire.
rlundsrud
Senior Member
- Location
- chicago, il, USA
Yes, you are correct. I suppose I should have said between the utility transformer and the meter. I thought everything up to and including the meter was the utilities equipment. I can't think of a time thato I have ever had to run the cables to the meter.
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