I'm am getting to pull all my wire in a new construction home, ground up remodel. I am wanting and needing to put a secondary sub-panel upstairs but the only place to put it is in a clothes closet. I know that this conflicts to the NEC 2002 code. What I'm asking is is there any situation where there could be a exception. Like if I did not shelf the wall the sub panel was going on that way it would be clear of any obstacles and fire hazards? any and all posts welcome. Thanks
new sub panel location
- Thread starter mill4011
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: new sub panel location
I don't see any exceptions to Section 240.24(D). I also doubt you could comply with required working space and dedicated equipment space.
I am also certain there is another location to put the panelboard.
I don't see any exceptions to Section 240.24(D). I also doubt you could comply with required working space and dedicated equipment space.
I am also certain there is another location to put the panelboard.
johndeereman
Member
Re: new sub panel location
Because how an arc can acure with sparks going every which way it is not just the shelving that is the problem but the arcing that can acure & create a fire with the flamable clothing.
Because how an arc can acure with sparks going every which way it is not just the shelving that is the problem but the arcing that can acure & create a fire with the flamable clothing.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: new sub panel location
There are always discrete locations in which you can install a panel. I have seen them built into a wall, and then painted the same color as the wall. This is the simplest way to disguise the panel, so long as the panel manufacturer has no objections to painting the panel?s surface. If it were my home, I would have the panel flush-mounted in a hallway, and simply hang a large picture over it. I do not think this would violate the ?no storage in the working space? rule.
Not true. It would be more accurate to say that ?the only place that does not look ugly is in the clothes closet.?
There are always discrete locations in which you can install a panel. I have seen them built into a wall, and then painted the same color as the wall. This is the simplest way to disguise the panel, so long as the panel manufacturer has no objections to painting the panel?s surface. If it were my home, I would have the panel flush-mounted in a hallway, and simply hang a large picture over it. I do not think this would violate the ?no storage in the working space? rule.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: new sub panel location
'cause we all know this is not true.
I think this is were you are supposed to insert a wink.
'cause we all know this is not true.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: new sub panel location
A panel board cover can be easily hidden by a painting or mural.
However, that approach can make finding a tripped breaker a real adventure.
A panel board cover can be easily hidden by a painting or mural.
However, that approach can make finding a tripped breaker a real adventure.
sparkslord
Member
Re: new sub panel location
Las Vegas, and nearby cities alow panels to be installed in closets. It's in their ammendments.
Las Vegas, and nearby cities alow panels to be installed in closets. It's in their ammendments.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: new sub panel location
The NEC does not say you cannot install panels in closets, you are not permitted to install them in closets that have "easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets."
The NEC does not say you cannot install panels in closets, you are not permitted to install them in closets that have "easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets."
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: new sub panel location
Keep in mind that there are other closets where they cannot be installed if easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets is expected to be around.
Keep in mind that there are other closets where they cannot be installed if easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets is expected to be around.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: new sub panel location
So if I only keep my FR work clothes in this clothes closet, then I can put my panel in there.
So if I only keep my FR work clothes in this clothes closet, then I can put my panel in there.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: new sub panel location
Don, if it were you home and I was the AHJ, I would let you do anything you wanted because I know you wouldn't end up with anything dangerous.
Don, if it were you home and I was the AHJ, I would let you do anything you wanted because I know you wouldn't end up with anything dangerous.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: new sub panel location
Charlie I am suprised by your post Yes I hope we are all profesionasl here but it stands to reason that someone will read that post and take it to the extrime.I know codes are written for layman with h/o`s permits. otherwise inspections would be a thing of the past.Unless there is a EC that cuts corners The good guys just need to do thier job and be left alone
Charlie I am suprised by your post
Yes I hope we are all profesionasl here but it stands to reason that someone will read that post and take it to the extrime.I know codes are written for layman with h/o`s permits. otherwise inspections would be a thing of the past.Unless there is a EC that cuts corners The good guys just need to do thier job and be left alone
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: new sub panel location
Because even the good guys never make mistakes, right?Originally posted by allenwayne:
The good guys just need to do thier job and be left alone
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: new sub panel location
Why would any town ammend this code.All they need is one person to die because a fire started in a clothes closet that they recklessly permitted.Any lawyer could easily win that case.Or are they going to say panels never cause fires in there town ?
Why would any town ammend this code.All they need is one person to die because a fire started in a clothes closet that they recklessly permitted.Any lawyer could easily win that case.Or are they going to say panels never cause fires in there town ?
Re: new sub panel location
I wondered myself about this , maybe they think that a panel like any other electrical equipment wired properly should not be a concern for fires.
Just bcause its a panel does not mean its supose to catch on fire sooner or later does it?
Jim I am just shooting thoughts out on the subject and just as curious as you are for the reasons permitted.
I wondered myself about this , maybe they think that a panel like any other electrical equipment wired properly should not be a concern for fires.
Just bcause its a panel does not mean its supose to catch on fire sooner or later does it?
Jim I am just shooting thoughts out on the subject and just as curious as you are for the reasons permitted.
Re: new sub panel location
Jim how is it that you are such an expert on lawyers, judges, court, etc...?
Now, for the issue at hand, has it occured to anyone that maybe it's the possibility of the clothes starting on fire by any given reason and hurting the panel.
I mean, if the panel were not in the closet and the clothes caught on fire and were lost, so be it, you just put out the fire and watch the rest of the Daytona 500. You can always buy more clothes after the race.
Roger
Jim how is it that you are such an expert on lawyers, judges, court, etc...?
Now, for the issue at hand, has it occured to anyone that maybe it's the possibility of the clothes starting on fire by any given reason and hurting the panel.
I mean, if the panel were not in the closet and the clothes caught on fire and were lost, so be it, you just put out the fire and watch the rest of the Daytona 500. You can always buy more clothes after the race.
Roger
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: new sub panel location
I just think that the probability of a high energy event happening at the panelboard is much more likely than any particular outlet. A basic IR thermometer will clearly show you a panelboard is one of the "warmer" locations in a home even during normal operation let alone during a fault.
[ February 23, 2005, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
I just think that the probability of a high energy event happening at the panelboard is much more likely than any particular outlet. A basic IR thermometer will clearly show you a panelboard is one of the "warmer" locations in a home even during normal operation let alone during a fault.
[ February 23, 2005, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
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