New to the commercial game

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RLyons

Senior Member
Location
Changed for anonymity
So I have crossed to the dark side and begun my journey into the commercial end of things. I want to start familiarizing myself to the commercial specific codes as unlike my previous position it is encouraged that I learn these things.

So I am currently bending and hanging emt, pulling wires, making junctions and would like to start familiarizing myself on the basics. I've been thumbing through the 2008 but figured some of you guys would be able to point out the key sections I should be studying up on and understanding.

One thing that brought up my curiosity was while landing wires in a disconnect. Disconnect was bonded and there was a 4x4 nippled out of the bottom which had a shunt circuit running through it and was also bonded. I needed to run a shunt trip from the disco breaker through the nipple to the 4x4 and was told a ground was required to pass through the nipple even though both the disconnect and the 4x4 were already bonded.
 
One of the most important basic aspects of electricity is the bonding and grounding of the electrical system, don't take it lightly. Another one is the connections made to conductors. The number one cause of fires in electricity is "Resistance" (learn it) the flow of electricity when you prohibit the flow and you have heat. (see my post today showing the photos and remnants caused by a lose connection.

Question, Are you sure you want to crossover?
 
RLyons said:
So I have crossed to the dark side and begun my journey into the commercial end of things. I want to start familiarizing myself to the commercial specific codes as unlike my previous position it is encouraged that I learn these things.

So I am currently bending and hanging emt, pulling wires, making junctions and would like to start familiarizing myself on the basics. I've been thumbing through the 2008 but figured some of you guys would be able to point out the key sections I should be studying up on and understanding.
Click to expand...

The key things are do what your boss or jouneyman tells you to do and keep asking questions here.

One thing that brought up my curiosity was while landing wires in a disconnect. Disconnect was bonded and there was a 4x4 nippled out of the bottom which had a shunt circuit running through it and was also bonded. I needed to run a shunt trip from the disco breaker through the nipple to the 4x4 and was told a ground was required to pass through the nipple even though both the disconnect and the 4x4 were already bonded.
Click to expand...
I'm lost here. What is a 4x4? What is the application?

Also get in the habit of making a distinction between a Grounded Conductor and an Equipment Grounding Conductor.
 
ActionDave said:
The key things are do what your boss or jouneyman tells you to do and keep asking questions here.

I'm lost here. What is a 4x4? What is the application?

Also get in the habit of making a distinction between a Grounded Conductor and an Equipment Grounding Conductor.
Click to expand...

What is a 4x4 ? Usually a 4" sq box or a 1900 box, plus I am sure other regional names. Double Ditto on the Grounded Conductor & Equipment Grounding Conductor distinction.
 
Read and reread Art 250. Then read it again. I think Mike Holt has a book dedicated to Art 250.

As far as putting a green wire through the nipple from the disc to the 4sq, the company I work for has a policy that requires it even if the NEC does not.
 
I've seen the results of resistance first hand on many occasion even if I didn't fully understand it.

I decided to cross over because of Opportunity, Money and challenge.

4x4 is a 4 sq. which is nippled off of a elevator disconnect for the fire shunt trip.

There has already been an instance where if what I was instructed to do was explained I could have avoided some rework.

There is a couple guys who are good at explaining things but the journeymen seem a little busy for my questions which is why I'll end up asking some of my questions here.
 
RLyons said:
I've seen the results of resistance first hand on many occasion even if I didn't fully understand it.

I decided to cross over because of Opportunity, Money and challenge.

4x4 is a 4 sq. which is nippled off of a elevator disconnect for the fire shunt trip.

There has already been an instance where if what I was instructed to do was explained I could have avoided some rework.

There is a couple guys who are good at explaining things but the journeymen seem a little busy for my questions which is why I'll end up asking some of my questions here.
Click to expand...

RLyons,
Have you ever heard of concentric knockouts? If not than look it up! that may be why your foreman is asking for redundancy in the bonding, Word of advice, keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth closed, you'll learn alot, no offense.
 
This nipple in general (NEC only, some locals rules could state otherwise) doesn't require an equipment grounding conductor be pulled through it. The nipple does need bonded as does the 4x4 box, and may or may not be allowed be bonded via standard locknuts depending on other installation conditions.
 
stuartdmc said:
RLyons,
Have you ever heard of concentric knockouts? If not than look it up! that may be why your foreman is asking for redundancy in the bonding, Word of advice, keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth closed, you'll learn alot, no offense.
Click to expand...

The concentric KO do not necessarily require extra bonding bushing if the metallic box is listed per UL.

Sometimes you have to keep talking and keep asking questions to learn. You really can't rely on what you foreman says.

"the listener has to smart not the speaker"
 
RLyons said:
So I have crossed to the dark side and begun my journey into the commercial end of things. I want to start familiarizing myself to the commercial specific codes as unlike my previous position it is encouraged that I learn these things.
Click to expand...


Commercial work is a very broad field. Most companies specialize in certain areas of commercial work. If you are doing big box stores you ill not be as interested in codes that pertain to restaurants (commercial kitchens).

So what does the company normally do? Big box stores, schools, hospitals, office buildings, malls or restaurants?
 
growler said:
Commercial work is a very broad field. Most companies specialize in certain areas of commercial work. If you are doing big box stores you ill not be as interested in codes that pertain to restaurants (commercial kitchens).

So what does the company normally do? Big box stores, schools, hospitals, office buildings, malls or restaurants?
Click to expand...
But a big store like a WalMart will have a lot of what the big box does, plus the kitchen, plus refrigeration equipment, and maybe even a commercial garage though it typically would be a minor service garage.
 
RLyons said:
So I have crossed to the dark side and begun my journey into the commercial end of things. I want to start familiarizing myself to the commercial specific codes as unlike my previous position it is encouraged that I learn these things.

So I am currently bending and hanging emt, pulling wires, making junctions and would like to start familiarizing myself on the basics. I've been thumbing through the 2008 but figured some of you guys would be able to point out the key sections I should be studying up on and understanding.

One thing that brought up my curiosity was while landing wires in a disconnect. Disconnect was bonded and there was a 4x4 nippled out of the bottom which had a shunt circuit running through it and was also bonded. I needed to run a shunt trip from the disco breaker through the nipple to the 4x4 and was told a ground was required to pass through the nipple even though both the disconnect and the 4x4 were already bonded.
Click to expand...



Just a heads up on commercial work .

I have seen more than once , a contractor not aware or whatever and screw up on the ACIS ratting of Switch Gear Breakers , when they start in Commercial Work .




Don
 
Last edited:
With 40 years old coming up fast I've learned to keep my mouth closed and do as I'm told. I do like to ask a lot of questions which I'm sure higher ups don't always have time for. Being the new guy I'm not sure who knows what, or how long they've been doing it so needless to say there might be some trust issues :lol:

Coworkers are more concerned with knowing if I'm a temp or a direct hire than wanting to know what I am capable of. I feel this company has come across many people who say they can do more than they actually can. There are times I'm not sure if I should say "Yeah I've done this before on this project" as the majority of my work was residential even though I had the honor of working on some larger and interesting commercial solar jobs.

The current project I'm on is a hospital addition/OR expansion. This company is not new 30+ years and do commercial electrical, fire alarm and infrastructure cabling.
I appreciate any feedback towards furthering my career and I don't get offended easily.

Thanks
 
RLyons said:
With 40 years old coming up fast I've learned to keep my mouth closed and do as I'm told. I do like to ask a lot of questions which I'm sure higher ups don't always have time for. Being the new guy I'm not sure who knows what, or how long they've been doing it so needless to say there might be some trust issues :lol:

Coworkers are more concerned with knowing if I'm a temp or a direct hire than wanting to know what I am capable of. I feel this company has come across many people who say they can do more than they actually can. There are times I'm not sure if I should say "Yeah I've done this before on this project" as the majority of my work was residential even though I had the honor of working on some larger and interesting commercial solar jobs.

The current project I'm on is a hospital addition/OR expansion. This company is not new 30+ years and do commercial electrical, fire alarm and infrastructure cabling.
I appreciate any feedback towards furthering my career and I don't get offended easily.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Hospital can cover a pretty wide variety of code articles.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top